Pegasus Podcast

Horses for Mental Health, Expanding the Hoofprint for Healing

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In this special episode of the Pegasus Podcast, we explore the powerful connection between horses and healing. 

Host Jen Tankel is joined by three incredible guests: Lynn Thomas, Co-Founder of Horses for Mental Health; Jen Grant, Head of Marketing at Zoetis Equine; and Seen Through Horses ambassador Jodie Morton. 

Together, they discuss how horses are playing a transformative role in mental health services, the impact of the Seen Through Horses campaign, and their shared mission to raise awareness and support for equine-assisted therapy. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone who believes in the healing power of horses.

Join the Seen Through Horses Campaign:

Connect with Ambassador, Jodie Morton:

Learn More About Zoetis Equine: 

Reference:

  1. National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI). Mental health by the numbers. NAMI. https://www.nami.org/about-mental-illness/mental-health-by-the-numbers/. Accessed January 2, 2025. 

GEQ-01320

 

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Speaker 1:

Have you scheduled your horse's annual vaccinations? Ask your veterinarian about Core EQ Innovator and FluVac Innovator EHV 4-in-1. When paired together, these two vaccines help provide comprehensive coverage against all five core equine diseases and flu protection. Visit zoetisequinecom or follow at Zoetisequine on Instagram and Facebook for horse health care tips and resources. Today's episode is near and dear to us, as we sit down with three influential leaders in the equine industry who are helping pave a way for mental health services incorporating horses. Maybe you've already heard about the Horses for Mental Health community and perhaps you too have benefited greatly by having horses in your life. This episode is for anyone who shares the vision to see a world where more people know about the healing power of horses, and for those who want to learn more behind the why of what makes these animals incredible therapeutic partners. We're going to chat with three guests who are working together as part of the upcoming 2025 Seed Through Horses campaign sponsored by Zoetis during Mental Health Awareness Month in May. Since its founding in 2022, the campaign has raised over $620,000 for nonprofit charity partners. We have Lynn Thomas, a licensed clinical social worker, as well as the co-founder and president of Horses for Mental Health. Joining Lynn is equestrian competitor Jen Grant, the head of marketing for the equine division at Zoetis, an organization providing equine care solutions that also proudly supports the Seen Through Horses campaign as the title sponsor. Finally, we also get to hear from mental health advocate and influencer from Australia, jodi Morton, a campaign ambassador who has trekked nearly 2000 miles and counting with her two horses, thelma and Saki. We hope you enjoy this conversation and feel inspired to join in on the campaign's movement.

Speaker 1:

We have three incredible guests joining us on the Pegasus podcast today. I am so excited to introduce Lynn Thomas, mental health professional and co-founder and president at Forces for Mental Health. Jen Grant, equestrian competitor specializing in eventing, and the head of marketing at Zoetis Equine, along with equestrian and mental health advocate Jodi Morton. So welcome to the podcast. You three, thank you so much for being here. This is going to be a great discussion.

Speaker 1:

Now. All of you three have crossed paths because of a shared interest in the healing power of horses, and your efforts align so well with the Seeing Through Horses campaign, which we'll dive into in a moment. But first I'd love it if we can learn more about how each of you found your passion for horses, which eventually led you into your line of work. So let's start with some introductions with Jodi and Jen, and then Lynn can wrap us up and tell us more about the campaign. So first up, jodi. You're known on Instagram as at Green Golden Blues, and I know you were currently traveling and trekking through Patagonia, and things have since changed a little bit, but how did horses become such an instrumental part of your life? So?

Speaker 3:

I think my horse story started when I was about two years old. My parents made the mistake of moving us to a house that was opposite horse boarding, and so for as long as I can remember, I was just that kid that was constantly like begging to go and see the horses, like everything was. Can we go see the horses? Can we go pet the horses? Can we give them treats, can we just go and be around horses? And, for whatever reason, I'm the only one in my family that has been bitten by the horse bug. Nobody else has that interest.

Speaker 3:

I think I just took all of it, didn't leave anything for anyone else. But yeah, it was just kind of pure coincidence that we ended up being like in such close proximity to horses and then, by proxy, because I was always there, I grew up with them in that way and then, because I was there so much, a spot became available at that boarding facility and so when I was 15, I got my first lease and then when I was 16, I got my own actual horse named Buddy, and he was this big Palomino gelding, sold to me as a highly educated eight-year-old. Been there, done that, and then I brought him home and found out he was a green, green, green, broke four-year-old that pretty much knew absolutely nothing. When I first showed up to look at him they pulled off the blankets and he was just like absolute skin and bones. So like the 16-year-old me was like we cannot leave him. And I remember when I brought him home and I got the dentist out and we found out he was four and like started finding out like what he had, like what he truly was, instead of what he was advertised as I just remember, like sitting in the pasture and just like crying because I just kind of lost my confidence on my previous horse.

Speaker 3:

But he ended up just being the absolute horse of a lifetime, like he was just turned into the coolest gelding ever and so growing up, then I had him for a while and then I actually ended up over in Colorado and watching, working on a guest ranch there. So what was supposed to be one summer inevitably turned into like three summers, three falls and a winter. So I kind of got the bug over there in the United States and like working on that ranch over there, then I decided to come back and try and be a little bit more of an adult. I had been at IBM beforehand. So I went back to corporate land for a little bit and was at Hewlett Packard and then lasted there a little while before. I then had to like break the news to my parents that I was actually resigning from that role as well, to go on a big ride across Australia, and then that's kind of the start of Green, gold and Blues, like you mentioned.

Speaker 1:

What prompted you to resign from your corporate life?

Speaker 3:

Like there was a couple of things like Corporate life wasn't really my forte, especially after being out in the mountains. However, what really really prompted that really big life change was I had a couple who I referred to as my grandparents. They were like no blood relation, but that was the role that they held in my life. Therefore, that was the role that they held in my life and therefore, that was the title that they got. And so, in 2017, my grandma actually passed away from suicide, and the year before that, I had had a friend that I'd been working at in that ranch with working with at that ranch in Colorado, and we lost her to the same way, and so for a long time there, I was kind of like inside my head, so just trying to figure out, you know, what I could have done, and playing the blame game and going through like scenario after scenario of well, I could have said this and then they would have said this, and I was just spending so much time going through hypothetical scenarios that never would have happened and wouldn't change anything that I was yet living inside my head more so than in the real world, and then one day, I was just sitting there and feeling really, really sorry for myself, like absolutely miserable, and I kind of thought well, instead of just sitting here moping around, you're not achieving anything Like why don't you actually do something about it? And so I kind of sat down and had a think and I was like, well, what is the link between these two people in my life that I lost? And what I figured was that both of them were very passionate about horses and both of them lived in rural areas. So the answer to that that, I thought, was, well, I'm going to take a team of horses and I'm going to go and ride through rural areas and fundraise for, and raise awareness for, mental health.

Speaker 3:

And so my initial ride was going to be along the Bicentennial National Trail in Australia. It goes from Healesville to Cooktown, so pretty much the bottom of Australia, all the way up to the top on the east coast, and it was supposed to be 5,330 kilometers or about 3,300 miles. So I set off with a team of three horses and managed to get through about 600 miles of that or so before the drought cut us off. So the last day on trail we had eight water crossings and all by one of them was dry. And so I was like well, I've got three horses with me, I can't carry water, and so this is not something that we're going to be able to continue with right now, not knowing if I'm going to have those water sources on up.

Speaker 3:

And so then I finished at like the thousand kilometer, like 600, I think it was 620 miles or so, and then I went into plan B, and so plan B came in the form of going out and riding the continental divide, because I didn't want to just sit and twiddle my thumbs until the rains came, because we had no idea when that was going to be. And so I was like you know what? I'm going to fly over to the States. I got a truck, trailer and horses and then planned out my ride along the continental divide and kind of kept going and kept green gold and blues going in that respect.

Speaker 3:

So circling back just a little bit for how green gold and blues actually came to be, so Australia is synonymous with green and gold, and originally this was going to be a trail across Australia, and depression is also known as the blues, so it just became green, gold and blues, and so from then on I went and started in Wyoming and then rode through Montana and then circled back to Colorado because it was a huge, like record snow year, so I had to kind of keep flipping around to see where I could get through based on the snow, and so, yeah, that's, that's long story short that's incredible.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I have a couple follow-up questions, because this is incredible, that you're doing this and that you started doing this Before you started this journey. Had you ever done any kind of trekking like that?

Speaker 3:

No, I hadn't.

Speaker 3:

I did like one quick, I think like four or five day practice ride beforehand.

Speaker 3:

So when I was over in the States I did do a packing clinic with one of my really good friends and he teaches the packing for another charity that focuses on using horses for like mental health reasons Heroes and Horses over in Montana and so he runs the packing program of that. And when I met him I met him randomly when I was in the States on a trip and he's like all right, cool, well, let's get into it. And he took three days off haying that year to give me like a full intensive packing course, three days off haying that year to give me like a full intensive packing course. And so, um, yeah, I borrowed one of his pack saddles when I came back to Australia and then, yeah, did a quick practice trip and then next thing I know I'm by myself and really getting into it. I wouldn't recommend going that way. I would definitely recommend in hindsight to like build up to it, start on a couple of smaller rides and then do a bigger one and a bigger one and a bigger one and do it properly.

Speaker 3:

You just jumped right in Do as I say, not as I do right.

Speaker 1:

What is that like? I mean, I know we've got a lot to cover. We're going to have to have another podcast. This is just so fascinating. But how does one trek with multiple horses at one time, particularly alone? That just seems like the most daunting logistical task that you had. You know, had some practice runs before and had someone kind of coaching you in the beginning but then really just jumped right in. So can you like paint the scene of what that looks like on a day to day when you're going that long distance and it's just you and you have all these horses? What does that look like?

Speaker 3:

So it started out like I still had to figure out my routines. But once I got into a routine and I knew exactly where everything had to be, so everything that I owned had its exact spot and its exact place. So as soon as I figured out exactly where that was, it was just a matter of rolling through the checklist every morning when I packed down camp and then rolling through the checklist every afternoon when I set up camp at wherever we were in that new place. So I had three horses for that trip. I had my main lead mare and then I had my main pack horse and then I had a spare horse that just I was packing off, a weighed, a western saddle, so she only had really light loads, and then I would switch my riding horse and my spare horse out. So we kind of like rotated. The only exception was my pack horse. He didn't get switched out my main pack horse because he walks so fast and I can't have my pack horses trotting because, like, we just keep to a walk, because if you trot then those loads are gonna bounce up and down on their back and give them a sore back, and so if I ever rode him, then the girls behind us would have just been trotting the entire day, so he just got to stick as a pack horse. There was one day where I did have some help and they took all of my stuff to the next camp, and that was one day I got to ride him. It was fantastic. We went so fast, yeah.

Speaker 3:

So pretty much in Australia a lot of the BNT was actually four-wheel drive track, so it was a really, really nice one to get started on, because the roads were quite clear and there wasn't any single track, so I could just have my horses not necessarily in a single file, I could have them next to me, and so, yeah, it just kind of looked like a lot of exploring through the mountains on four-wheel drive tracks and they fell into the routine really, really quickly as well. So I had Phoenix was my main riding mare, and then Costa was my pack horse and Cece was kind of like my spare horse for most of the time and they just figured it out so I would ride Fee and just be holding Costa's lead rope and then I would have Cece tied to the back of Costa just on a breakaway. So if anything happened like there was one time where he went on one side of a street sign and she went on the other and I was like that's not going to work and like that bailing tie just broke and she just kind of kept walking. She's like all right, well, here we go.

Speaker 3:

But yeah, that's kind of what it looked like. It's so cool.

Speaker 1:

Down the road. That definitely beats a day at Hewlett Packard for sure. All right.

Speaker 3:

Well, I could, I could ask you about this all day.

Speaker 1:

So I think we're going to have separate conversations with each of you, because every one of you is so interesting and has such a cool background. But all right, I'll I'll pivot from from one Jen to another. Um so, jen, your work with Zoetis brings horses into your day-to-day vocation, which we'll get into. But let's start with how you found horses and how you became an equestrian competitor.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So my story is in many ways similar to Jodi's. I did not come from a horsey family but as far back as I can remember, I just had the bug Very young, you know, I was three or four, and we also moved to a property that had horses adjoining us and I would go down by myself and I would feed the horses and scratch the horses and at some point they switched from wood fencing to hot tape and my little three or four-year-old self would electrocute herself daily in order to go hang out with my horse friends. So I don't really know what that says about my judgment or, frankly, my parents' parenting, but I think it underscores that level of passion that horses brought to my life then and have carried me through my life today. So growing up, I moved around a fair amount and got exposed to lots of different types of riding, from jumping to riding Western to exercising racehorses but ended up falling in love with the sport of eventing, which is really what I focused on for the last 20 years. I think the crazy gene definitely still comes out. I have a mostly titanium arm and a mostly titanium leg as souvenirs of my eventing career, but I can't imagine giving it up, it challenges me, it keeps me mentally and physically occupied, and I've just had the blessing of having such amazing horses in my life to learn and grow from and with. So that's always been my personal passion.

Speaker 2:

But, of course, had to fund the personal passion with a career, and so I spent 20 years in marketing and strategy client side, agency side and I actually ran my own consulting firm as well. I always thought that the profession was the way that I could then support my passion until one day I had the opportunity to join Zoetis as their newly created head of marketing for their equine division and, to be honest, it's been four years. I still pinch myself every day, but someone actually pays me to think about horses for a living. Don't tell my boss, but I think about them all day anyway, for free. So it's pretty incredible to be able to bring together that personal and professional passion and get to work with a team of equine veterinarians and other horse owners and just fellow horse lovers who are so passionate about these animals and really get to feel like we're making a positive impact on their health and well-being.

Speaker 2:

So Zoetis is the world's largest fully dedicated animal health company and one of the things that I find really rewarding about working there is that we're a very purpose-driven organization, and so for our equine division our focus is really to be always by the side of horses and their caregivers, and so when I think about what that means and how that influences the products that we make, the services we provide and the kind of engagement we have with the industry, I think it really gives each of us on the equine team at Zoetis a North Star for how we can contribute to the care of these animals who do so much to care for us in return. We did a lot of work to kind of define who we are and what this purpose was and realize that there's this amazing reciprocity of care between horses and humans and I don't think that comes as a surprise to any of us here. But that notion that horses really fill our cups in so many ways physically, mentally, emotionally, socially and even spiritually and so as their caregivers we have this responsibility to give them the best care and the best lives in return, and I think living by that mantra personally and also with a company that feels the same, has been tremendously rewarding. So if you're a horse person, you may know Zoetis, you may have seen us out in the industry. You may have seen our Long Live the Horse campaign, but I'm decently confident that you have been familiar with or use some of our products, like Quest DeWormers or CoriQ vaccines, prostride regenerative medicine or Trusty Dormosodan.

Speaker 2:

That's always seemed to be there when you need it most and I think one of the things I feel personally proud about is that these products truly contribute to the well-being of horses and truly allow caregivers, whether they're veterinarians or whether they're someone like me as an owner, to provide the best care and the best well-being for these animals that do so much for us.

Speaker 2:

And when I translate that beyond, you know what we make as a company and really how we prioritize our resources and our focus.

Speaker 2:

I think engaging with organizations that feel that same mandate and feel that same sense of reciprocating the care between humans and horses led us to our relationship with Horses for Mental Health and the Seeing Through Horses campaign. I think Lynn came to us. We started talking back in early 2022, which seems like a really long time ago now and it was, at that point, basically a shared passion and a blank sheet of paper, which could always feel a little daunting, but we rolled up our sleeves and we said we don't know exactly what this is going to look like, but we really believe that there is opportunity for change us, to raise awareness about the amazing impact that horses can have on human mental health. So we said let's go Watching that campaign grow and the influence and impact it's made on lives, both horses and humans. Over the last four years has been one of the most rewarding parts of my career and I'm really excited to see where we're going to take it in 2025 and beyond.

Speaker 1:

Amazing and, of course, we love the Zoetis team. To be a Jen on this call. You have to be an inventor, so we both have to be a guest. All right, so, all right. So, lynn, so you've dedicated over 30 years of your profession to practicing with clients, training professionals and advocating globally for the powerful role these animals can play in the mental health services. So how did your journey begin and can you explain a bit behind the science of why horses can be such great co-facilitators with mental health practitioners?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, thank you, and I'm sitting here listening to Jodi and Jen's stories and I'm literally in awe of what you guys have done. J would you know, Jodi, for you to be able to, to step into the unknown, like you have, and follow your heart and your soul to spread awareness of mental health and and and support resources for mental health. I'm just I'm sitting here going, oh my gosh, she's so brave, that's so cool. And, Jen, thank you, you know, stepping into again your heart and passion, and I think that's probably why I'm so honored to be part of this call with you guys and connected with you guys, of people who follow their hearts, and that those hearts involve horses.

Speaker 4:

And, like you guys, I, my background did not involve horses. My, I was not a horsey family either and I did not have any like engagement really with horses up until I got involved as a mental health professional working in an at-risk youth program. That happened to be on a ranch setting and that's where I said, wow, this is amazing. I saw what the horses did and what they brought to the sessions and how they impacted. I was primarily working with adolescents and families and I saw them make changes that I had not ever seen in any other setting and I was working in nature-based settings experiential. I've always been a believer in doing versus just talking, and so I saw the impact these horses made and that, like you guys, led me on a journey of incorporating horses and dedicating my career to bringing awareness and supporting professionals who provide mental health services, incorporating horses for like, yeah, 30 years now. So it's pretty wild what horses can do and how they can change our lives. But basically what I saw in these horses was how the clients I mean talking about stepping into the unknown. So many of the clients that come out and do these type of sessions have never been around horses either.

Speaker 4:

And there's something about horses that draws people in they're. You know, they're large and it can be a little intimidating too, and there's this like awe factor that really engages people right away. And I saw especially youth that have. Well, I mean, I think we all have our walls up and there's something about horses that break right through those barriers, right through those walls. They bring out our authentic selves and they help us not just talk about things but actually feel things. They give us that kind of feedback where we look at ourselves in ways that maybe people have not ever experienced before and it just has this profound impact on people that I mean I've had people say, yeah, this one little moment with a horse that I had in a mental health session, I'm still thinking about it five years later, and so it has that kind of longevity and impact, that kind of experience.

Speaker 4:

And, of course, at the base of mental health issues and challenges in the world are our relationships relationships with others, relationships with ourselves, relationships with our beliefs and our environment, and so the horses really provide this opportunity to work through and connect with those different types of relationships in new ways. So, yeah, that led me on this path to ending up training and certifying professionals and incorporating horses and mental health services and really seeing the growth and awareness of that. And I mean it went from no one had ever, ever heard of this and there was zero credibility for it. You know, if I were to say things as a mental health professional to other mental health professionals, oh, that's, that's nice. You know that that like, okay, that's a little out there and we've come a long ways. There's a lot of credibility. There's a lot of people seeking new resources and new ways of learning about themselves and and helping themselves emotionally.

Speaker 4:

And it was based on that and seeing these programs work so hard, sacrifice so much to provide these amazing services that were changing lives, it was kind of like we need to do more.

Speaker 4:

We need to do more to support these programs that are not only benefiting humans, they're benefiting horses too. And so that led to in 2021, creating Horses for Mental Health and with this idea of what can we do to collaborate more together so we can be louder, have our voices heard, and that we could provide more resources by working together to support these programs. And, of course, that led us to connecting with Jen and Zoetis, and you know, again, talk about stepping into the unknown, Like you were saying, Jen. It was like Zoetis jumped on board with something that had not been tried, not been done, with a new organization like us, and said, yes, we believe in the vision of this and it's been an incredible journey of what we're accomplishing together. So I'm super grateful because this, what we're doing with Horses for Mental Health and Stealing Through Horses campaign, wouldn't be happening without the support of Zoetis and incredible ambassadors and influencers, like Jodi, that are supporting this cause to bring awareness.

Speaker 1:

That's incredible and, yeah, to your point, pegasus and horse show technology didn't really exist. You know modern technology, and so I just learned about what we were doing, and they, too, have been an incredible advocate and supporter of us. So this is a lot to say about the incredible team behind Zoetis. But, lynn, that's amazing, and I'd love to go into more about the May Seen Through Horses campaign that your organization runs each year and how you work with Zoetis and Jodi on that.

Speaker 4:

So the Seen Through Horses campaign is an annual peer-to-peer awareness and fundraising campaign held each May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month, and we partner with organizations, of course, like Zoetis, and ambassadors and influencers like Jodi, to help spread the word, first and foremost, about the impact horses can have for mental health and in mental health services. So our first priority is really bringing awareness, and then the second part of the campaign is fundraising and we bring on nonprofit organizations who are providing these services to clients in their communities and we support them through training materials, a platform that we can all work together on, and they share it with their friends and say, hey, come and support these organizations and help us raise money, because they do need resources to be able to provide this. It supports both the horses and, of course, be able to expand more clients to have the opportunity to experience these kinds of mental health services. And so we do it all together, which makes us a lot louder when we're all at the same time and has brought a momentum so that over we're about to do our fourth campaign this May 2025. The last three we have grown raised over $620,000 now for over 150, 180 organizations that have been supported across 45 states and our last campaign grew like practically tripled in the amount of donations and spreading awareness than the campaign before. So, like Jen was sharing, we're just really excited to see what we can do together to keep spreading that awareness and having that snowball effect rolling. And with Jodi spreading to her hundreds of thousands, millions of followers and other influencers doing that as well, it just helps us expand that awareness even further. And all the funds raised during the campaign go directly to the charity partners. You can choose a charity partner to support or just support the whole campaign, but either way it all goes directly to them their programs to provide scholarships for clients, to support their horse care and any other support that they need to continue providing these services.

Speaker 4:

And so, yeah, that's I. I'm just excited about what we're all doing together and solving what is actually like, like Jodi was sharing, it's a huge need. I mean, you know, one in five people have mental health issues and challenges in their life. It's suicide is the second cause of death for our young people. I mean, ultimately, every single one of us are impacted by mental health challenges and needs and there are ways to support people through that. And I know, jodi, that's a lot of what you're doing, sharing like there are resources, there are ways to support one another through these challenges, and what's really exciting and cool is that horses can be one of those solutions, guided by professional facilitators, mental health professionals who can guide you through this incredibly profound process of learning about ourselves. And so it's as you guys I'm super passionate, I was like devoted, and I know Jen and Jodi are both so passionate about this cause and how horses can really be a solution in people's lives and help people's lives change for the better.

Speaker 1:

So well said, very cool, and of course, I will share those links to the resources in the show notes too, so everyone that's listening can go and follow along and donate and just learn more about those charity partners. It's incredible. All right, cool. Well, we're going to go through some roundtable questions, a question to ask for each of you. We'll start off with the first do you have a story on how horses positively impacted your own mental health journey or how you witness them impact the life of another? So if we want to go, jody, jen and then then Lynn, perfect.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I've seen horses like positively impact people on so many levels. I actually volunteered at riding for many years my late teens, early twenties and so I got to firsthand see just like the incredible impact that they've been able to have on the kids and adults that we worked with. But on a more personal level, when I first started Green, gold and Blues, obviously I wanted to raise awareness for mental health and depression because of the people that I'd lost, but when I first started this, I never thought that I personally was going to be on the other side of that as well, and so, to make a long story short, after I finished my Continental Divide ride, I actually ended up in a really emotionally abusive relationship, and so that lasted for a number of years, and by the time I actually managed to get out the other end, I was a shell of my former self. That partner did everything in his power to bring me down, which is kind of ironic because when I met him I was at like my peak confidence in myself and my horsemanship, and I had just never experienced being around a person like that, and I didn't pick up on any of the behavioral patterns until later on. So by the time I left, getting to the point where I was too scared to even ride Thelma and this is the horse that I had just done 900 miles of the continental divide with like by myself. And so this huge transition from being like on top of the world with this horse to, by the time I managed to get out, just not even wanting to ride her anymore because I was getting so scared of that, and so she was actually a huge factor in me kind of finding that person again, of who I was beforehand, and she was so patient with me, like she was always just there for me and she just waited until I was ready again. And, um, there was actually this moment which is really really big for me now looking back, Actually, this moment which is really really big for me now looking back.

Speaker 3:

So about two or three months after I left, I actually went and rode into the Grand Canyon with her, and this is something that I'd been wanting to do for years Didn't get all the way right down into the very base of the canyon because I this is the silliest reason but I had a chiropractic appointment like that evening and so I needed to get back, so we went most of the way down and then I was like, oh, time factor, we got to get back out again. But I remember that I was just so emotionally numb at that point that we got to the top of the Canyon again and I was sitting with her and I was looking out and we had just achieved something that I'd been working towards for years and I was definitely proud of her, um, because you know it, physically it's a lot, and she just took everything in her stride, just like every other um, like skinny mountain trail we've done. But yeah, I just remember in that moment just feeling nothing. I wasn't proud, I wasn't happy, I wasn't sad, I was just nothing.

Speaker 3:

And then, um, I started speaking to myself in the way that I had then been taught to speak and the way that he'd spoken to me. So I started like berating myself for not feeling more and being like what is wrong with you? This is ridiculous. And then, after a moment, I just took a second. I caught myself because she was just waiting there for me. She wasn't like let's go until I'd kind of had my moment, and that's just one of the examples of her just being for me, being there for me in a way that you know I'm not sure would have been possible with another person, and she just kept doing that for me throughout like the entire healing process on the other side, and it was really her that I think, was able to remind me of where we had been beforehand and really help bring me back and, of course, like friends and everything, are just such a huge part of that support. But there's just an element that horses can give you that I don't think you can get from any other place, totally agree.

Speaker 1:

Amazing how they know, like they know, what you need and they're there for you, for her, to be just so patient in those moments and then help you become who you were when you started out on this journey again.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, because I just got into the point where I was scared to ride because every time I was anywhere near horses I would just get berated, and she was kind of the reminder that I needed to be like no, you are capable and you are competent, needed to be like no, you are capable and you are competent. And yeah, it was just her being able to sit with me or like me, sit with her as well, that really kind of kickstarted that journey to coming back. That's incredible.

Speaker 1:

Well, jen, that's tough to follow up with, but next one up to you. Well, I mean, I guess the beautiful thing is, everyone has a story like this where horses have helped us in so many different ways in our own unique journey of where we were at and what we needed and what they needed, and so I'm sure everyone here can attest to. So I would love to hear your story next, jen, as to what you witnessed and whether that's for you or for someone else that you know.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and you know whether that's for you or for someone else that you know. Yes, and I'll begin by echoing what Lynn shared, which is just how amazing it is to watch the impact that horses can make on lives. It's truly awe-inspiring. We know there's science behind it, but I don't think we've, with all of the technological and scientific advances, we have still plumbed the depths of the impact that these animals can make on us in a very unique way. Right, because we know that companion animals also bring a lot of positive benefits to our lives and to our well-being. But there's something intrinsic in horses that just fills you with this sense of wonder and, I think, has the ability to unlock these amazing healing moments. Jodi shared that her life was touched by suicide. My life was also touched closely by that as well, and I wish I could go back and I wish horses and horses and mental health services had been more of a focus in society, because you always wonder would a resource like that have made a difference? But I know that there are so many stories of how horses have made those positive impacts on lives, and they've certainly made them on mine. I guess. One story that comes to mind for me is I had also ended a long-term relationship. Mine was very amicable, but still a major life change and I was really feeling a little bit of a sense of adriftness and wanting to be choiceful about what I brought into my life next. And so I had sent a young mare of mine down to. I was living in New York at the time and I sent a young mare of mine down to North Carolina for a few months of winter training to get out of the cold, for her to get exposed to a few things, and I had originally planned to come down for a month or two and be remote and just get to share a little bit of that journey with her. And coming down here and watching my young mare grow and sort of feeling this growth in myself and a sense of community with other amazing equestrians in the Southern Pines area really gave me the confidence to kind of say, hey, actually I don't need to go back. And so I stayed. I made a very large life decision in the middle of a lesson actually, when I said I'm not going to go back to New York in the middle of March. I think I'm going to find a house and stay here.

Speaker 2:

And then the code to this story. So you know, emotional, high feeling, empowered, feeling great about myself, inspired about my life choices. Empowered, feeling great about myself, inspired about my life choices. A week later I'm jumping this same mare and my saddle tree breaks and I have a fall and I end up shattering both bones in my left leg through the skin Pretty dire situation. And I was getting prepped for surgery. They actually told me I might never walk or ride again and that amputation was a possibility. So it was pretty heavy.

Speaker 2:

I was feeling a lot of things. I just set my past life sort of on the shelf, made a new life, and now my life may have been changed again in some pretty drastic ways, but I think and knowing what I wanted in life and knowing that back to gave me purpose and gave me something to I don't want to say live for, but something to work for. And the day that they told me I could walk, I left the hospital, I put on riding britches and boots and I got on my mare walk trot canter. Five weeks later I did my first show with her. We finished in the ribbons and the rest was history. So horses get you through a lot and they give you a lot to support yourself with when it feels like life can be hard.

Speaker 1:

How crazy that that was one week after as well. Like, talk about really testing that commitment. You burned the boats, it was to the Carolinas. You went and your horse was like you, sure? And hey, now you are part titanium, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 2:

The airport security detectors. Love me.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, all right. So, lynn, we'd love to hear a story from you about how horses have impacted you, or just someone that you know.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I mean I feel like so fortunate that I've gotten to you, know witness what I feel are miracles over and over again and hear of miracles happening in people's lives and just even hearing Jodi and Jen's story and especially, like what you were sharing, jodi, how often clients come and spending that time connecting with the horse, how it brings a lot of tears and how it also a lot of common things that I hear are, I feel like I'm reconnecting with myself again and again. How does that happen? I can't explain it, but it does happen. And you know, jen, even what you're sharing, it feels like horses. Just you know, come with us on this journey, these journeys through transitions, these journey through hard times where we feel really held and supported and confronted too. I mean, it's not always easy around the horses too. Sometimes they tell us things we don't want to look at and see in ourselves.

Speaker 4:

And I've had the opportunity to as a non-horse person, even though I've been around horses for almost 30 years. But I do not consider myself a professional in the equine and I always work with equine professionals. But I've had the opportunity to adopt a green yearling Mustang named Milkshake, and so I've had this opportunity to work with him and do some things, and one of the things was that we needed to move him from one spot to another spot. Now, he hadn't really been led much except for like one day of practicing, but we had to move him from one spot to another spot because of the weather and mud and all these things. And, and so I was, he was scared, I was scared, and it was during a time in my life where a lot of transitions were happening and I was going into the unknown too and it was scary and kind of both of us going in this space of fear and how do we work through that fear? And he'd kind of pull and I'd be trying to breathe and try to work through, and you know, and we had a quite a bit of adventures to just get from one spot to another spot. But through that, like all these awareness is about how often I hold my breath, how often, how tense I really was when I was thinking I wasn't how, how I had to get through my own fear to help his fear.

Speaker 4:

And I think that's what's so powerful about this work is you can again, it's not surface, you literally have to change at a cellular level inside yourself for this connection and this relationship to change, and we get taught so much that way through the horses.

Speaker 4:

And so he and I went on this adventure together, on this journey together, and it just mimicked both of our like stepping into something we're afraid of, and how can we do that and how can we support each other in that? So I think I see that, with clients all the time and discovering new things, changing the stories and the perspectives that they had about themselves, thinking that they were one way and realizing wait, I have a lot of strengths within myself and the horses bring out. They bring out those strengths, they bring out those authentic parts of ourselves. So, anyway, there's there's so many stories, it's hard to always pick one, but it's been a fun experience, even with working with a new horse and me being a new. You know I watch a lot and I facilitate a lot, but I'm not right in there with with my own experience very often, and any chance I get to do that is incredible, I imagine being with a Mustang is probably the most because, like, for them everything is brand new.

Speaker 1:

It's not like you just got this tried and true, been around old lesson horse that kind of knows everything and it's kind of experienced a lot. Like you're also bringing on this horse that is really relying on your energy to your point of like how you're feeling, how you're breathing, and even from a competitive standpoint which I know Jen can probably speak largely to as an eventer it's so much how you are feeling and keeping control of your nerves. I remember when I first started in eventing I actually first had this backyard Arabian pony who we actually rescued for a dollar and he didn't do anything before. So I introduced him into eventing, but I was 10 at the time and so I was quite nervous, to the point where I actually would throw up before I went on cross country. I was so nervous and he picked up on that, and so it was truly this learning lesson of oh, I have to control how I feel, because if I'm really nervous, then he is really nervous and he's not going to perform. And so when I got my advanced level mare, by that point I had really kind of honed in on being in control of my breath and being in control of how I feel, because when I was just really in the zone, then she was also in the zone.

Speaker 1:

It's such a mental component and to be on the ground working with horses and see that not from a riding perspective but how they're experiencing the world, it's got to be a very rewarding experience. So thanks so much for sharing that story and we'll go to the next question. I could talk about this all day, Okay. So second question we'll start with you, Jodi. What is one of your favorite aspects or a favorite memory of the Steamed Through Horses campaign?

Speaker 3:

Well, I think that what I really really love about this campaign is that so many different people are able to share the ways in which horses have personally impacted themselves and, like we've spoken about, there's just such a huge spectrum in the way that horses are able to help us, you know, on every different level.

Speaker 3:

But being able to see just what they've done for others because I think it's so easy sometimes to think about just what everyone's stories and just like the true extent to which horses have changed people's lives is just so inspiring and I think like storytelling is just such a great way to connect to other people as well. I know that during my time since I've started Green, gold and Blues, I have been so honored to have people like share their own personal stories with mental health and then others have reached out and said, because of this story be it like one follower story that I've shared or like my own stories they've been able to come and say, hey, hearing that and hearing that somebody else has been able to make it through. That has now inspired me to either keep going through my really hard days or to try something that I thought was never possible beforehand. So I think that the storytelling aspect of the Seen Through Horses campaign is just such a powerful way to impact horses on our mental health as a whole.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, amazing. All right, what about you, jen?

Speaker 2:

I have two, if you'll indulge me.

Speaker 2:

So the first is every year at the end of their horses who participate in the services as well, and just getting to see firsthand the impact that we're making on lives Like I definitely have to turn my Zoom video off when we first watch this because it's ugly, tears all around, just because you really realize.

Speaker 2:

You know work, a corporate job, you know sometimes it's a lot of days behind a computer or in front of Excel, but in those moments you really realize that we can come together as a community and make an impact on both human and equine lives and that's just a pretty tremendous thing.

Speaker 2:

In a similar vein, and with an eye to spreading awareness beyond those of us who already eat, sleep and breathe horse every day, lynn and the Seen Through Horses co-founder Tyler joined us at the Zoetis National Sales Meeting earlier this year in Las Vegas and were able to deliver a keynote presentation not just to our equine division but to our livestock division as well, really highlighting the campaign and the initiative and the why behind it all, with the idea of demonstrating how Zoetis, across the board, lives its purpose and so to see the impact on an audience that doesn't necessarily think about horses every day and to hear the engagement and some of the questions and stories that were shared.

Speaker 2:

I think that really reinforced the power of this initiative. And about a week later I got an email from a colleague in a different division that I may never have crossed paths with otherwise, and he shared with me that he had a family member who was going through some mental health struggles, and hearing that keynote presentation was the thing he needed to seek out a equine-assisted mental health program for this young woman, and so he shared with me that now she's enrolled with an organization and she's going to be doing a summer program, and just the hope and excitement that that brought. And so I think that ripple effect is really what this initiative is about, and that certainly fills my cup.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how cool that presentation. You didn't really know who was going to be in the audience and who was going to take from that. So that's really cool that that happened, that he shared that with you and I'm with you too, jen. I'm not so much a crier as well, but when, like even hearing about all of your stories, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm tearing up a bit. Oh my gosh, I'm tearing up a bit, so I need to lock it up. So, lynn, I'd love to hear from you as well. And again, since you do work in this every day and I've been doing this for 30 years, I imagine you probably have so many stories and so many favorite memories. But we'd love to hear if you've got one of your favorite aspects of the Scene Through Horses campaign.

Speaker 4:

Well, first of all, I have to say, jen, what say Jen? What you're saying? Oh my gosh. Yes, that's definitely a highlight of getting to experience the moments in the campaign. Hearing from the charity partners themselves, both their gratitude and the incredible work that they do, and getting to be a part of supporting them and supporting this cause is just so gratifying. And, yeah, we all shed tears when we get to watch that together. And that time that we yeah, getting to attend the Zoetta sales meeting was that was a highlight actually, of my life. It was so special to be amongst this group and knowing that together we're supporting this to even be happening along with everybody else involved, and so it's very gratifying and fulfilling to know we're making a difference in people's lives and in horses' lives. And then I was gonna share, well, yeah, one of the highlights for me of the Seen Through Horses campaign Well, there's so many. I'm so grateful that we're even getting to do this together and create this movement because of the lives being changed.

Speaker 4:

And one of the things I love is the videos of the stories, like you were mentioning, jodi, the storytelling, being able to share and for people to kind of have an idea and experience of what this can look like and how this can impact lives, and sharing actual case, actual, real case story experiences that really show the uniqueness that horses bring. Like I said, there's a lot of different resources out there for mental health and I've experienced so many of those resources as well, and horses do bring something that's unique to the process, and how can we show that they bring something unique and the things that they do? I don't know why I still get surprised when horses do they like, when they choose to walk away or towards, or what they do, and the interactions ends up being the most perfect thing to have happened for that person in that moment and how it changes their story, which changes their life. And we have these videos that hopefully give a little feel for that and, yeah, it's one of those brings tears and, anyway, just have a lot of gratitude for the collaboration and the ability to kind of spread the word about how this, how this, happened. So, yes, I'm super grateful.

Speaker 4:

This was a passion project for several years that just was not happening, not happening block after block to do this Scene Through Horses campaign and even calling it the Scene Through Horses campaign, which is really honoring one of the unique things that horses bring to this process is where they create these spaces where people feel truly seen and heard, and that's where healing can happen, and so just being a part of this journey is a highlight. So I appreciate everybody supporting it and getting on board and being part of this movement and you know, we know, we'll keep growing.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say it is a great name, it's a perfect name, all right, so we'll go on to the last question then. So, all right, why is it important that we continue to advocate for mental health services that incorporate horses? So, if you want to kick it off, jodi, yeah Well, I think.

Speaker 3:

I think we've all touched on it so well. It's just that horses can provide something that is completely unique that I don't think you can or will find anywhere else, and, like Lynn, I know that you see it every day and, like you literally just said, like it's just a magic that just keeps happening, but it never stops being magical. And so, like being able to provide this, um, like this experience for people is just so important and able to unlock something that may have otherwise not been accessible without the horse. So I know, like when we spoke before about when I was on top of the Grand Canyon with Thelma, and that was just a little piece of that healing journey that I don't think I would have been able to experience without her and without, like her sitting with me as my horse, and so I think it's just so incredibly important to be able to make that available as far and wide as we can and allow more and more people to experience that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, to your point, like you were there with her, like experiencing it with her, I mean, I think going up there in general would have been a magical experience, but you shared that with her and she was part of that, so I can see that being just a 10x factor. All right, jen, we'll move to you.

Speaker 2:

Continue to see opportunity to widen the impact. I mean, the positive benefits are nearly endless. I think it's easy for us all to gravitate and be moved to these moments of major transformation. You know, maybe someone's going through an acute mental health crisis or has a major breakthrough, and those are absolutely powerful and legitimate and possible. But I also think there's a broader layer of positive impact that horses can make on mental health, where maybe it's not at the moment of something acute.

Speaker 2:

I think about how, as a busy professional I think we can all probably relate you can sometimes feel like there's just so much going on, there's so much in your head.

Speaker 2:

It's hard to make time and prioritize things.

Speaker 2:

That may feel like a luxury when you've got things to do, and so I've been really diligent about trying to say I'm going to carve out my time to go to the barn, even if it feels like I have a million other things to do, and invariably I leave with a better sense of self, a better sense of focus, a better sense of energy, and so I can think about day-to-day mental health questions that may not feel like these big, pivotal moments in your life, but that bringing horses into your journey can also have a really positive impact on.

Speaker 2:

So I guess that's all a way of saying the impacts and the implications of this movement seem nearly endless in their application, which is what gets me really excited. And the other thing that I would remark on is particularly because I work in a profession that engages very closely with the veterinary profession, and we know that veterinarians certainly equine veterinarians face a great deal of struggle when it comes to the sustainability around the industry and some of the mental health implications that that comes with, and so I think I'm also really excited about ways to think about those who are in a field like veterinary medicine, where there are such inherent struggles and compassion, fatigue and pressures. And how can these practitioners, who do so much for the horses that we love and care about, also benefit from the healing power that horses can bring in return? I know we've been working with Lynn a little bit and the American Association of Equine Practitioners to start to raise awareness on that topic, but it feels like we're just getting out the gate and there's so much more potential there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I can second that no-transcript very important. And yeah, I can attest to that.

Speaker 2:

I made sure. Before this podcast I was like, oh, I've got a lot to do this morning. I was like, girl, go ride, get on your giant five-year-old, have that moment. Try not to fall off today because you've got things to do. But like, what better way to prepare for this amazing meeting of minds than to have that experience and bring that energy?

Speaker 1:

So did you do it, were you up early, I was up early.

Speaker 2:

I rode and he was actually a very. I have a five-year-old Irish sport horse that's very athletic, which is 99% of the time amazing and 1% of the time a little challenging at this point on his journey and I was very pleased that he brought the right energy this morning and so came here feeling like I had more inspiration to draw on than ever.

Speaker 1:

I bet that's so funny. You gave him like a little pep talk before, like, hey, this is an important conversation. Try to limit the bucking this time, please, sir. Next time we need to all go ride and then come right from the barn to this, or we can just do this on horseback, mic'd up. I prefer the latter. Can you imagine we'd be able to chat about this forever? Well cool, that's amazing, jen. And yeah, we'll conclude with you, lynn. So we'd love to hear more about, from your perspective, why it's important that we continue to advocate for mental health services that bring in our horses.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and Jen, what you were sharing there actually made me think of too. You know, there's so much natural benefit being around horses and being part of horses lives that can bring mental health and support us in our journeys. And there's another level that when you have a professionally trained equine professional and mental health professional facilitating you. I just want to encourage and hopefully part of the Seeing Through Horses campaign is bringing awareness. Whether you're around horses a lot or never been around horses at all, they bring something really incredible to the process. And when you add in that those trained facilitators that support you through that journey, that specific focusing on those type of goals, that's another level of healing and change that you can get. And so you know, as far as why is it so important? It's so important to keep spreading awareness because there's still so much need. There's still so much need for mental health in the world. There's still so much need for these horses to have a role, especially when they're in their second careers.

Speaker 4:

And this is the fastest growing sector of the equine industry is equine assisted services that are benefiting people's lives, and so we can benefit horses, we can benefit humans and these programs that are providing these services.

Speaker 4:

They sacrifice a lot, they struggle so much to do something that they love and are passionate about, because it's changing lives, and I'm passionate and excited that this campaign can help support them as well, not only to have more resources to provide more access to the services, but just to support them and being able to care for the horses to be able to provide these services to begin with. Begin with, anyway, I just feel like we have a long ways to go, because there is a lot of people who don't even know this exists, or they know about the benefits of horses but don't really understand how these services can truly benefit them, and so my hope is that we're getting the word out there and really really appreciate Jen and Zoetis and Jodi and all the ambassadors and influencers that we have and everybody that's supporting and getting on board, helping us make this happen, because it is changing lives, it makes a difference, so I appreciate everybody's support.

Speaker 1:

Thank you guys. This is such an inspiring discussion. You're all so passionate about this.

Speaker 1:

For someone like me and, I think, a lot of people in the corporate world and, just honestly, anyone in this day and age where you're constantly behind your phone, there's notification fatigue. You don't necessarily always feel like you're in the moment. For example, the other day I was talking to Sam and I was like it almost feels like every day we can like plug ourselves in and they have to like plug yourself out. We've been on this like remote island, for example, and all we've been doing is working and we have one more week here before we move to our new house. But just to be able to unplug and just take a moment and enjoy that we're on this island and you know it's snowing outside and so much of these last few months of being here have just been the stress of working and things like that, and so just to be able to take yourself out of it and connect and, to your point, lynn, have someone there who can take you a little bit deeper, like we all can feel and understand how much horses impact your mental health and your mental being and just your happiness.

Speaker 1:

But someone like me, right who. I'm hearing this and I'm like I would love to be involved in this. I would love to not only be with the horses but have someone like you, lynn, who can take me another level deeper, like how does someone like myself get involved in something like this? Is it you can book something? Are there different centers where they focus on someone like me, the corporate professional who's stressed out and needs to be able to go a bit deeper and live in the moment a little bit more? Where can someone like myself get more involved in this organization and what it is that you guys are doing? Yeah, thanks.

Speaker 4:

Jen, you can go to horsesformentalhealthorg and on there we have a resources tab where one there's a find a program so you can look for services in your area to go experience it for yourself, and so there's that. We also have a how to get trained and certified. If you are someone who maybe has horses and wants to add this to the services you provide in your community, we have a page on there about how to go get trained and learn more about how to do that facilitation and guide people through those journeys. And then, of course, we have our campaign page so you can learn more about the Seen Through Horses campaign. Get involved, support these charity partner organizations and hopefully during the month of May, we'd love for you to contribute and donate as you're able and spread the word, spread the videos we're having a video on veterinary and mental health coming out and just anyway, there's so many great resources to share. So horsesformentalhealthorg and you can access all of that Awesome.

Speaker 1:

Actually, I'll go around too. I'd love everyone to share where they can follow your journey, learn more about you guys. So, jodi, where can people find more about you and all the incredible places that you're going? So?

Speaker 3:

I spend most of my time on Instagram, so Instagram is going to be the best place to follow along with what I'm doing and connect. I do also have my website, which is greengoldenbluescom, and that has a little bit more information everything that I've been doing and the story behind how I started. So those are going to be the best two places.

Speaker 2:

How about you, jed? So to learn more about Zoetis and our equine portfolio, you can find us on social at Zoetis Equine, and if you're looking for an array of educational resources around horse care, horse keeping, as well as to understand some of the organizations that we support, like the Seen Through Horses platform in the industry, you can check us out on our website at zoetisequinecom. And if you're in the horse world, I may run into you myself at a show, possibly with dust on my britches, but a smile on my face.

Speaker 1:

We also want to see this journey of your five-year-old in the show ring, so let's keep us posted with that too.

Speaker 2:

I may need to take advantage of some mental health services myself some days, based on how it's going, but it is an amazing journey.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you three for joining. This has been amazing. I think the stars are aligning. We just need to meet up in person. I think our second conversation should be I mean, we can be in the Patagonia, jodi, if you want to go back there, count us in or one of these amazing therapeutic centers, or we'll watch you Jen, after you show.

Speaker 1:

Point being, this was an amazing discussion. Again, you guys are so passionate about it and it's really inspiring as someone who I knew a bit about it, of course and you know I did the research before this podcast this conversation followed everyone on socials, but just hearing it from the horse's mouth no pun intended was really cool. Once again, that was Lynn Thomas of Horses for Mental Health, jen Grant of Zoetis Equine and Jodi Morton of Green, gold and Blues, and so, like we said before, we'll include the show notes so that everyone can connect with all of these incredible organizations and follow along with the campaign, which we'll include a link to, and so we can all be a part of this year's Seen Through Horses campaign, happening from May 1st to May 31st. So thank you guys for joining us and I look forward to seeing you guys in person soon. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much, jen, this is amazing.