Pegasus Podcast
@thepegasusapp https://www.thepegasus.app/🐴 Conversations with the movers and shakers of the global equestrian industry. Hosted by Pegasus founders Sam Baynes and Jen Tankel.
Pegasus Podcast
A New Breed of Design: Andrea Knowles on Tech and Equestrian Spaces
This episode is brought to you by Zoetis.
As the founder of Equine Residences, Andrea Knowles is redefining the equestrian landscape with her innovative facility designs.
Combining technology, design, and horse-savvy knowledge, she crafts beautiful and beneficial environments for both horses and their humans, ensuring the health and wellness of all involved.
Join us as we delve into the specifics of how Andrea utilizes artificial intelligence to bring her visionary designs to life.
From exploring the bond between young girls and horses, to the transformative power of AI within the equestrian market, Andrea's insights are guaranteed to captivate.
In this episode, we discuss:
- How European equestrian facilities think more about building for the long term.
- Why every equestrian center needs a place for both riders and non-riders to hang out.
- What companies in our space are eliminating the use of microplastics in facilities.
- How to get 40,000 Instagram followers in a year.
- And more.
As an avid eventer, you may have heard of the equine regenerative medicine device Pro-Stride APS® (autologous protein solution device) available through your veterinarian.
But did you know the company behind Pro-Stride has been by the side of horses and their caregivers for more than 70 years?
Be sure to visit ZoetisEquine.com or follow @ZoetisEquine on Facebook and Instagram to learn more.
🐴 This episode is brought to you by Pegasus, the first modern event management system that makes it easy to host and run equestrian events. Sign up for early access at www.thepegasus.app.
Be sure to follow Pegasus on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and subscribe to The Oxer, the #1 weekly newsletter for global equestrian industry happenings. 🗞️
We are excited to announce that this episode is brought to you by Zoetis. As an avid inventor, you may have heard of the equine regenerative medicine device, prostride APS, available through your veterinarian, but do you know that the company behind Prostride, zoetis, has been by the side of horses and their caregivers for more than 70 years? Be sure to visit wwwzoetisequinecom or follow at Zoetis Equine on Facebook and Instagram to learn more.
Speaker 3:There are jokes ad nauseam means all over the place about hey, I'm going to the barn, I'll be home in an hour and 10 hours later you're not back. It's just what it is that. You're not trying to be rude or misplans or anything, just get stuck in what you're doing at the barn lug the red horses and talking about who did it. Very gossipy, I think, in some regards, but it's also like a healthy environment and I just find that a barn should be a really encouraging of the social activities that you guys saw In Europe. All barns should feel that way.
Speaker 4:Hi everyone, my name is Noah Levy and I am the producer of our Pegasus podcast, hosted by our founders Sam Baines and Jen Tangle. On today's episode, we are hosting Andrea Knowles, the founder of Equine Residences. Andrea is at the forefront of using cutting edge technologies for envisioning the equestrian facilities of tomorrow. This episode is particularly interesting if you want to learn about how AI is currently being used in equine property development, as Andrea is perhaps the thought leader in this space. All right, let's get into it.
Speaker 1:Great to see you again.
Speaker 3:Thank you for joining us Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here and talk to you guys.
Speaker 2:So just for our listeners, can you just tell us who you are?
Speaker 3:and what you do. So I'm Andrea Knowles and I am the founder owner of Equine Residences. We are an equestrian facilities design business and we work with clients worldwide to create a new model of the equestrian facility. We're trying to change things that help and wellness and safety obviously are huge priorities with the functional and aesthetic beauty of the designs.
Speaker 2:Right. So when you say equestrian facility design, so essentially someone calls you, you come in, you get a vision of kind of what they want to achieve, both in terms of aesthetic as well as functionality, and then you go away and you draw the blueprints and designs like an architect, and then do you also deliver the project as well and get all the contractors in, or do you guys just the design component?
Speaker 3:We do all of that. So the answer to your question is yes. We work with the builder from start to finish. So our objective is to come in when the client is either looking for property or has just purchased property, so that we begin the project at the very start and we say, through the entire process, all the way through the final install of all the material Right, and do you help with those designs, or will they come to you with an idea of what they want to create it, or do you show them what's possible?
Speaker 1:And what I mean is I discovered you from your Instagram account, which is a beautiful, stunning portfolio of work, and you really show what's possible with the designs, the aesthetic, the layouts. So do they come to you first and they say I want an equestrian facility, I want this type of barn, and then you go from there, or do you confuse that creativity and show them what's possible?
Speaker 3:Both, but more the latter than the former. So we definitely like when a client has some vision as well as coming to us for ours. We also don't want to step over anyone else's vision. I think that the collaborative process is super important for a designer and architect. You don't want to force your aesthetic onto someone who's going to be there long term. Once completed, we're out. Right, it's not my facility. My horses won't live there and I won't either. But, that being said, because I'm constantly researching what's available, not just in the equestrian marketplace, but technology for sure, and designers are job is to know everything that's in the design marketplace at all times. I made myself a two-time, full-time job now, so design and equestrian and knowing everything that's going on, and also then the health and wellness component that's super important to my practice.
Speaker 2:Right, you do work all over the world, but just focusing on the American market, for the moment, I imagine there's not a huge amount of people who do what you do and therefore you kind of all know each other. Is that a fair assessment or is there actually quite a few people kicking around? So it's a relatively big market.
Speaker 3:So I don't feel that there's anyone else that does what I do, because I'm not an architect per se, but we brought architects in-house, so that's how we accomplish doing everything from start to finish. So there are a few dedicated equestrian architects in the world not many, and interestingly quite a few in Brazil, which I know about because they all follow me, which is great. I'm thrilled. So I see what they're up to. But as far as what we did is, we took the architect kind of out of the process so that our clients were saving a lot of money. It was a financial decision. My fees are significantly less than an architect's and the only thing that happens is because my office is here in the US, my architects are Europe, so we have to hire a local architect. A lot of the builders have them in-house and they will go through the permitting and clearance process with whatever city we're in, get the plan stamped and then off we go. We don't need them anymore.
Speaker 3:I partially made that decision because 20 years in the residential partial design industry in the US, a lot of times the architect disappears and it's just left to the designer and the builder to complete the project regardless of what's going on as far as normal change orders that go in any building process remodel, build whatever you're going to experience A lot of change orders Sometimes some of them have to pay, filed with the city as we plan so that the inspections pass at the end.
Speaker 3:In that process we found that bringing in a structural engineer or a civil engineer cuts a lot of the costs for the flight down. So I brought that knowledge over to the equestrian practice where I also felt, while a barn is a very complicated place to build, in some regards it's not the same as a house. So you're not needing that architect. Start to finish, sit on the project, build on the hourly, and I hope all the architects out there, if anyone listens to this, that they don't hate me, it wasn't personal, it was just let's see if this experiment works. And it's really working. As far as the clients are concerned, they're super happy about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how did you get into it? When did you launch the company?
Speaker 3:At my residence. This is only about a year old we're a baby. So I was starting to get a little unhappy in my regular design practice with the clients that I was working for, and I was also feeling that people in everywhere have come quote unquote design experts. So when I'm hired as the designer, I felt like I was fighting with people a lot because they'd seen something on television or heard something from a friend. So I was like why'd you hire me If you know everything about what you're doing? Why am I here? And the frustration level got high. So I, as a fourth person, pivoted into my love of horses and started doing a bunch of research. As a long, long time equestrian, I've been writing since I was seven and competing since I was eight. So I just felt like what's Missy and Orca? Please, if I could fill an each, then I'm going to go for it. And that's exactly what happened. Was this kind of niche peaking in mind?
Speaker 2:Sure, I totally get it. I mean, let's say that 50% of high end luxury bonds are built by experience of question professionals who have been there before, done it before, etc. And let's say the other 50% are built by people who's a family member rides and it's kind of their first time and they don't have any experience with it. For that 50% of the latter, the idea of building a high end luxury barn would be a very overwhelming concept, especially when you go to the local architects that you usually deal with and they're like sorry, we don't deal with equestrian properties. And so the idea of just going to an architect and hoping that that architect is going to basically tell you how to manage this project efficiently and cost effectively, you're not going to really feel like you've got your arms around it.
Speaker 2:But the idea of your business which is like, hey, let's meet for coffee. This is what I do, my company project manager is the whole life cycle, let's sit down. I know exactly the kind of thing you're trying to achieve. Let me talk you through the process. Let me talk you through where we can hire subject matter experts but only have them for the minimal time needed so we can keep the cost of the project down and let's talk through how we basically create a roadmap that puts those subject matter experts where they need to be for the maximum amount of time and then delivers the project. It's like getting a wedding planner who makes planning a wedding feel effortless. You know what I mean. It's like, oh good, all the stress of getting all the different vendors together and coordinating them. I feel like I'm not doing it by myself. Now I've got this person who knows how to do it. It's going to take that burden off my hands.
Speaker 1:Sam and I had a meeting last night the two of us for wedding planning, so Sam's finally starting to inject some wedding planning guidance Finally took a year, but in the fact that you have that equestrian expertise because we talked about this last time, you weren't there as Sam, but with Andrea you were mentioning how great it would be Instead of having the whiteboard, you have technology that's in the stalls that then is displayed in a tech room. So it's digital and it's keeping track of how much water your horses are drinking and are they laying down more often than they typically do, which could mean that they're colliding and just incorporating all these different technologies into the overall design, Whereas a typical architect would have no idea what you're talking about if you mentioned those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that comes into, andrea, your point earlier, which was that if you're going to be that subject matter expert who thinks about the entire life cycle as well as the full capability, then you have to think about it from the perspective of, okay, half my job, as you said, is to stay up to date on what capabilities exist, what technologies are coming into the market, what new AI program cameras are coming into the market that allow you to automate your feeding schedule, your mucking schedule, all that sort of stuff. So to Jen's point I imagine it's a consistent, ongoing, kind of tiresome job, but it's also an exciting. Part of the job is keeping tracks on the market.
Speaker 1:Since you mentioned AI, do you want to? Can we talk about AI now? One way we can do it now. I often get ahead and Sam's like whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2:You're getting up.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, talk about AI, because I know this is something that we briefly touched upon and some people think that all you do is just type into mid journey, make me an equestrian barn and make it look pretty and it just pops out these beautiful images, but in reality it takes a shit ton of work. So do you want to talk about how you incorporate it and how you think that people can start to think about incorporating AI into whatever work they do in the Russian industry?
Speaker 3:Totally, so we started using AI pretty recently and the rationale was I'd seen and it kept on Instagram that I really liked and she does beautiful work. I learned everything she does. And then we started chit chatting on Instagram and I thought to myself, while I'm in process on either kind of called the pre production of projects or the breaking ground and building, et cetera, while I'm waiting for that to be available to show to my followers and my future clients, I thought it would be a really good way to play around with an existing new technologies or new for us, right, not new for everybody. So I joined mid journey and I joined my office to mid journey so that we would all be able to see what we could accomplish, because rendering take forever and they cost a lot, a lot of money, whereas AI I can, so they're not the same. I don't get the same results.
Speaker 3:Rendering is a true to my vision design and if I want pink orchid in one side of the island in the lounge, I can absolutely put exactly what I want.
Speaker 3:It's exactly what I would do with a regular environment and rendering has to have a real purpose, right, I don't want to go too off topic, but we render things so that the client says I love this, and then we implement the exact rendering into the design and it goes to the builder and subcontractors, whereas AI is something that I can literally spit out my imagination. So I could be standing in the shower and say I would love to see the one I posted today, something that's kind of a modern farmhouse vibe that feels like it could be anywhere in the world. It could be in Aspen, colorado or Middleburg, virginia. Then I sit down and I type in a bunch of words that as a designer by the way, architectural knowledge also that goes into all of this and I use the prompts and then you finesse, and you finesse, and it takes me about 10 days to come up with the 10 images that you see.
Speaker 3:So I added it down from about 500,000, going over and over and over and, funnily enough, one of the things that I get a lot of flak. I get a lot of loves and a lot of flak on the AI. First of all, I want people's imaginations to be sparked, not angered, and I understand there's a lot of misconception about what AI actually is and what it is doing now and what it will be doing in the future. For me, there's not a lot of misconception. I'm very interested in my husband. He does technology. I love tech. I'm a total nerd.
Speaker 3:I take all of that information and after working on it working on it then, because I'd have also had to come up with an actual architectural concept but people are enraged by the fact that AI makes forces with five lights or three lights or whatever. I'm like. You're missing the point, guys. They're not real. They're not real horses. I didn't amputate or create any. I'm not trying to create a botany in the worst vision. I'm trying to give you a vision of what this kind of architectural facility could look like if we did that.
Speaker 3:It's inspiration right, and when I get flack, sometimes I will be a little bit plop back in the comments, Because there's just. I find that if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. I don't need your commentary about something that you don't understand in the first place. Which is that number one. It's AI. I don't know if you've noticed, but every time I do an AI post, I write in giant caps with stars and whatever. These images are AI, and people still don't always. By the way, not everyone reads the captions, that's fine. I don't read everybody's caption either, but, that being said, I'm not trying to piss anyone off. I'm trying to inspire, and I think that that's a huge part of what AI is giving designers right now and why there are so many people out there playing with AI and the design and architecture community. There are hundreds of accounts that are interesting to me and that are doing beautiful work and that are inspiring the entire design community, and I'm hoping it inspires the design and equestrian communities to follow me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Just very quickly for those that are listening, so they can get a sense of what you're talking about. What's your Instagram handle so they can see these images?
Speaker 3:At equine underscore residences.
Speaker 1:OK, cool yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean it makes total sense. I mean you're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place because it's the equestrian industry. It's rare to find one group of people united behind one cause who love to argue a nitpick over things more than the equestrian industry.
Speaker 3:And dog rescue.
Speaker 2:You can do everything. 99% right. There's enough that make up that 1% that are going to dominate the comments and say the negative things, because that's just the way of the world.
Speaker 1:Good for the algorithm at least.
Speaker 1:But, you do, but you nailed it when it inspires you and shows you what's possible. You had some images. I think there might have been a carpet and I mean, yes, you could go in and say, oh my gosh, that carpet's going to get destroyed by horse manure. But OK, maybe you could make it so that it's resistant to that or waterproof or whatever. I mean they have outdoor rugs, but, point being, I never thought of that. To have a beautiful tapestry in the middle of the aisle way. What could stem from that? What businesses can sum around all these things that AI is showing as possible, that we had.
Speaker 2:I really thought of and more than that, I imagine the things that you post on Instagram. Yes, they might serve the purpose of sparking imagination. That could, as Jen said, lead to a whole new offshoots of different industries and products that could be created. But from a B2B perspective, I imagine you use this when you're dealing with your clients. It's a far faster way for you to get a sense of the sort of vibe and feeling that they want before you go.
Speaker 2:Invest the time in doing the full render so you can basically build out a portfolio. You can do it quicker. You're not dependent upon anyone else, so it's literally just a matter of you finding the time to sit down and nail it and put the time in. You're not waiting for subcontractor to get the renders back to you. You're not waiting for that rendering process to be taken. You're not doing a negotiation on the contract of how much they're going to charge you for the renders, so you're able to speed up the process so much faster with your clients to figure out, ok, what sort of vibe are you going for, before you actually invest the real time and effort and money in designing the proper renders and all that sort of stuff. So it just allows you to scale your business a lot faster and it's something that your question.
Speaker 2:Industry should definitely embrace.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have put that into practice. So I have shown clients AI versus renders just exactly that. Like guys, I had this idea. So we have a courtyard barn. I would love to do water features within the courtyard instead of doing nothing. So I did a whole AI, set to playing with pooled and water features, and those are some of the prompts that I use all the time, because I've noticed that horses around water in my renderings and in other people's projects that I posted and my AIs that people love to see horses around water. It makes them feel good. It definitely attracts the eye. Plus, there's really nothing bad about horses and water because horses can go in water in their state around water, so it's a really cool way to say OK, so here's what I'm envisioning. Do you like that? Should we take it further? I've gotten really great feedback from multiple clients in that exact regard.
Speaker 1:I think it's really great because there's historically been I don't know if I'll commiserate it over there's been historically no real innovation or changes, and so I think it's easy, if someone's going to build a barn, just to look at what else has been done. So I think AI is really cool to show what's possible. And, to your point, with the water, I hadn't thought of that. How cool would it be to have a barn where there's maybe a water fountain or just some kind of water sounds, which is very peaceful for everyone?
Speaker 2:Totally, and how long has it taken you to figure out? I mean, you said it was five days to perfect the script to generate the images you wanted. Is that right?
Speaker 3:A little more generally. It also depends on the reaction that I'm getting out of mid-journey. I was like I wonder what it would look like to have a barn that looked like it comes straight out of Kyoto in Japan, with cherry blossoms, water features, japanese architecture, and I started playing with it and some of the results were really cool, but I felt like it would take me forever to get usable 10 images out of what I was trying to do. So what I do is, if something feels inspiring to me, I'll start a mid-journey project and so I create a folder, omegasa, and I title it whatever the architecture style is Northern European or Kyoto or whatever and then I start working on it and I'll put images into the folder and mid-journey keeps everything. It's not a great folder to send like you can't really organize within. Or, if you can I don't know how to do it, but I know that it's in there so I can go back up and if I feel like readdressing back into, let's say, the Japanese style, I can pop back up when I'm ready to really sit down and tackle that.
Speaker 3:Some of these ones, like I posted a couple of weeks ago one that was blue and white very traditional blue and white barn that would appeal to anyone and I said that it was in Afso-Provalse in France and people loved it and I was really excited because I loved it too, but that should be forever. So I started it two months ago and then I had to give it some time and then I ruminated and then I went back to it when I was ready and I loved what the result was. It turned out so beautifully and it's turned out to be really pleasing to a lot of people and, by the way, the inspiration for that was my childhood barn, where my first pulley was, and my mom was like I think someone thought it's in your imagination. I was like that's where everything is, mom, you know.
Speaker 1:That's where all my designs come from. Well, because you said it was similar to Afso-Provalse, which we were there over the summer and it's stunning. I love it there. Anywhere in the South of France is incredible. I encourage anyone to go to it, but did your childhood barn look like that? Where is your childhood barn? Let's get up to topic.
Speaker 3:So when I was a little girl we lived in Northern California, near San Francisco, so it was up there, and then we moved a couple years later to Los Angeles so I started riding there. It was a friend of my mom's. My parents are not horse people and I came out of the womb with one of your horse and they didn't quite know what to do. They capitulated. I even have it in my bio because it's funny, but it's actually true.
Speaker 3:When I was seven, my dad said to me if you stop sucking your thumb, I'll give you a pony. And my mom was like we're doing what? And so I did, and they held up their end of the deal and we, with the help of my mom's friend who was the rider, we went and found this pony and every little girl's dream. I couldn't even. I don't think I slept for the entire two weeks before we went and got him and he was a little white gray Welsh cob, evil, kineval pony.
Speaker 3:You know, as they all are, especially when you're seven, I got dumped into more jumps than I can count, but it was such a great experience and so he was at my mom's friends and then I was probably there about a year and a half and then we moved over to a show barn. It was. I was ready, I wanted to compete and from there the pony was retired friend's house where he had a really fun life. She and I would go trail riding up there here in her house and have a great time and then started buying horses. Competing began and they'd never seen my parents ever again, which was fine with me Cause.
Speaker 3:I was gone at shows four days a week. It was a great life. I think it's a healthy childhood.
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Speaker 2:This is really off topic, but what do you think it is about young girls that so many of them are hard-wired to love horses?
Speaker 3:So I can't tell you what I'm about to get into yet. We'll have to do another podcast when we're ready. So I have a theory that in your DNA, I think that you, whether your parents, are worse people or not I think something happens in the female mitochondrists DNA that they are like, come out and they love horses. Some little boys have it too, which is great. I love riding with boys at my barns, but I don't know, maybe it's the unicorn toys and cartoons. Maybe that's part of the inspiration. I have no idea, but I do know that I was really little when I wanted a horse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting because you grow up with your parents doing it. I grew up with my mom was a very active rider and competitor, and so I didn't have a choice. I was just born into it and it stuck for me, although my sister, she rode as well, but she just didn't get as competitive as I did. But it is, yeah, it's interesting to hear from you. You were seven and you were really into it and your parents are probably like what is this alien? That's exactly what they were.
Speaker 3:Well, my mom was a professional ballerina who retired when she had me, but she still danced and taught dance and that was her thing. So my sister and I obviously were in ballet very, very young and it broke her heart when I was like I'm really sorry, I can't do both. So goodbye to ballet. And she was devastated, but she got over it, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:There is a correlation too. Well then we can jump into the European market, but I think there is some kind of correlation between kids, maybe just a young girls thing. But getting into ballet and riding because I did the same thing, where I did riding and ballet, and then my mom, who was a rider, so obviously supported the riding. But she was like, look, you have to choose and I am incredibly ungraceful, like I am best when I am on a horse. I am not good on two wheels or two legs. So it was a really easy decision for me. It was like the riding I have a chance at this and it's a lot more fun and enjoyable.
Speaker 3:You know it's cool. I bet and I've never thought about this Ballet was probably really good for our core, our muscles, our coordination, et cetera, as riders. So, nope, decided not to be a ballerina. You decided not to be a ballerina, and then you get on your horse and even as a really young kid, you've got this developed muscle that you're able to use on your ride. So maybe it's better.
Speaker 1:I think so too.
Speaker 2:Well, actually, I would actually reverse the plan. So, rather than going straight into the European market now because we're down the road of AI and stuff, let's talk about how you have found to. It sounds like you get a lot of flak on social media from people complaining about the fact that you're using AI to design these things as much as getting people who love it. But when it comes to the business side of things and you're putting together these portfolios for clients to help them, it's customized Pinterest, right. You don't need to take other people's images. You create your own images to recreate your vision. Are you finding that American clients are responding to it? Well, and do you think that's an American thing being more open minded, being a more tech forward continent than, say, europe?
Speaker 3:I don't know if my I'm going to have to think about that. So within the comment section I would say it's 50-50 on America versus Europe or worldwide. Even I get a lot of love from the Middle East on their open minded. I find them to be pretty progressive in that way where certainly I'm not getting negative response out of anyone that follows me in the Middle East and I have a few people that I communicate with really regularly there because I really like to be in a work place.
Speaker 3:So there's that, but I'm not finding that it's a European versus American negativity or positivity.
Speaker 2:I think people are more about the. It's just the stickler on the earth, the non-sticklers.
Speaker 3:Well, and I think too, it's about people that are getting knowledgeable about this, and you know, one of the things Jen and I talked about when we talked just the two of us the other day is about is I think you've brought this up briefly the beginning the equestrian world is a little resistant to change of any kind, and one of the things Jen and I were talking about is so much of what we do as equestrians be it the tack that our horses wear or the style of clothing we're in are all pretty old right Old in the sense. Innovation in that way is not. It's viewed as good for certain parts of the equestrian world, but other parts not so much right. I've noticed that a lot of girls are wearing kind of different colored jackets when they're showing her, and I hate it. I'm like that's why, why there are three colors and that's what you should be wearing. Why are you wearing?
Speaker 1:You're part of the problem.
Speaker 3:I am, but, like at least in other ways, I'm trying to be part of the solution. First of all, I don't comment negatively about what they're wearing at all, but I think that as people in the equestrian business and I think you guys are technologists whereas I'm on another side that requires technology to do my work. So I think that breaking anything new into the horse world takes a little bit of time. One of the things that I've heard a lot of debate about is whether horses should be bitless and shoeless, right Barefoot, and bitless is, I think, what they call it. Well, I don't know right, so I'm not going to enter the debate. Also, I feel like it's interesting that the number one showdumper in the world, henrik von Ekerman, if he's Swedish, is riding his horse bitless and shoeless. So if it works, who am I to argue about what he's doing?
Speaker 3:The controversy is loved to be discussed less by the people that are actually in the high-end showjumping world than the people that are more hobbyists. So that's where I kind of draw my line, where I'm like I don't really. It's not that I don't care, it's that I'm not going to be as concerned. Commentary comes from people that are never going to work with me anyway. You know what I mean. They're not my potential clients, they're not interested in working with me. They have one horse and they're not building large facilities for their competition horses. It's just a totally different ballgame. So if those people come at me and they don't, by the way, so I think that leads us into kind of the discussion we've been wanting to have. What is going on in America and Europe as far as people being interested in technology, new product and making changes in the way they're doing things in their facilities or their horses, right, I mean, it's a big, great question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so on that point. So from what I understand, you've just come back from a European trip. You were in Italy the same time that we were. What other countries have you been to for business meetings, etc. In the last few years?
Speaker 3:I've been spending a lot of time in the Netherlands. I've quite a bit of stuff going on there, germany and I have German partners, so Germany is a big part of my life. Right now I'm taking German lessons because I think that that's a really polite thing to bring to the table to my business. I speak several other languages and German is not one of them, so Germany is a big, big, important part of my. Germany is a part of my business. Switzerland, italy and the UK but Mexico, big, big, big, important Mexico too, okay great.
Speaker 2:So, knowing what I know about the European equestrian market which, I have to admit, I can't say it's extensive, but it is a more traditional market. It's not a more successful market economically than America. America, in many ways, is a more economically successful equestrian market, but the European market has more infrastructure in place. There are more countries where the government supports the industry. It's more built. There's a more infrastructure in place in the sense of there's a lot more institutional investors who get involved in sport horses for whatever reason, which would lead me to believe that I could see a lot of Europeans being like.
Speaker 2:Well, america isn't renowned for being the place with great taste. Europe is the place for being renowned as the place with great taste. This is where you get the best fashion is this week by the best clothes. This is where you and we've got a longer history of working with horses. It's a more professional industry in some ways. So how have you managed to build these relationships overseas and how have you found the Europeans? Why have they been reaching out to you as an American to help them design new stalls? And is it because of the fact that you've got this really successful Instagram account and that's how they're finding you and that marketing channel is trumping what might be historic biases against the American market.
Speaker 3:I love that you brought that up. So I think that the Europeans may be a little more open-minded to some change in their facility designs. It's a twofold situation, so one they love and they will spend money on it, things that last longer. They'd rather spend more money to have their facility last forever than have to redo on a regular basis, so which I find that to be kind of a more American concept. If you use it for a short period of time, then you get rid of it, whereas the European marketplace I find places to be built for the long term and that stand up to the test of time.
Speaker 3:And I think that whatever is going on as far as what I'm doing, and they're seeing and not offending their sensibilities in the sense of the more modernist side, so to speak. And in fact I've done three concepts, and one of the concepts we went on a very traditional angle. And then the next concept I wanted to kind of push the envelope a little bit toward the more contemporary one. I'm talking about rendering for the followers and for myself by doing clients for the feedback and all of that is I'm loving pushing out envelope and seeing what we can do. That's basically never been done before and as a horse person, especially right. So one of the things that I'm really into is I go on stable tours every time in Europe. I see a ton of people's facilities, a lot of times facilitated by my partner in Germany, river and Rube, who are a stable equipment company. They arrange tours and I like seeing their product obviously installed the way they want to install which is why they came to me and the way that they have a vision and I have a vision and clients have a vision, and we want to make everyone's vision possible as a one stop shop. That's why we're working together. We love to go see what they do and they also have kind of a technological situation going on within their business that I really like. They're very open to things that are new and they're really into health and wellness, just like I am. So I feel that every horse person's top priority is health and wellness, and most of the negative feedback I get on AI too is people concerned that the barn is not safe or healthy or focused on health and wellness enough, and a lot of criticism, for instance, on ferns being in the barn right, that just as a thing, not really upset people because ferns can be poisonous or worse. That being said, I talked to my vet about it and she was like, yeah, you wish, for your horse would have to eat to get sick. So you know, but like meanwhile it's AI. I digress. The thing I'm loving that's going on in Europe is the long term plan versus a less short-term plan here.
Speaker 3:People here some people keep their facilities for years and years. By the way, there are some incredible facilities in the Northeast that have been there forever and are beautiful. The posts that I put up of someone else's place in the US got the most traction I've ever received on a post. It's the place in Connecticut that sold recently. I've showed jumping in Salesforce bar and they pulled out, moved to New York.
Speaker 3:I don't know what the rush was and it's none of my business, but I said in the caption I, whoever bought this, please reach out to me. I would love to participate in the remodel. And the people that had sold it reached out to me and said oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. We just remodeled it before we sold it. I was like I'm embarrassed that I made you feel that way. I didn't mean it in a negative way. I meant it in a modernized way. I think that they made some cosmetic changes. It's gorgeous, by the way, I think obviously because 50,000 people agreed with me. It's a beautiful facility and whoever bought that congrats. It's amazing, the property spectacular and all of that. I find it just super interesting that there's that resistance to change it's a little bit harder here, right.
Speaker 1:I enjoy a really good people tour. When we were in France, we went up to Normandy and we were just driving and we came across this it was a riding barn on a riding club, no, but it was in Polo. They had a bunch of different things happening there.
Speaker 3:You were there.
Speaker 1:Different disciplines and stuff. It was cool because they had this indoor arena and then there was a restaurant that was attached to the arena. It was like nothing really fancy, but little things like that. You have the barn on one end, there are a couple different arenas with different things, that everyone was practicing Polo, and then there was another arena with jumps Clearly multiple disciplines taking place there. Then the little things oh, the moms and dads are after they're done riding just to have this little cafe attached to the indoor arena. It was just this very lovely setup like a golf club.
Speaker 3:Well, I've told this story before and comes as a part of my inspiration for my 100% and an enormous part of my inspiration for my design. When we moved to Los Angeles when I was a child, my barn was at the Los Angeles at West Street Center and a very, very super high-completed 100 jumper barn. We were there for a year and a half or two and at that time that was where all of the core shows in LA still do. La owns it, the city owns it, but it's managed by I can't remember who. I would love to buy it, by the way. It's like goals. I would absolutely love to buy Los Angeles at West Street Center.
Speaker 1:Is that where the celebrity is right, or is this where the real hunter-jumper competitors ride Well?
Speaker 3:real hunter-jumper competitors rode. They don't have a rated shows there. I don't think anymore. They attracted all these show barns there Under the auspices. They were going to build a really beautiful facility for everybody and it never happened. Someone else did and we moved there. We were the first barn to relocate to this facility where people still are riding it, where show barns are. It was further away from my house. That was another epic thing that my mom drove me to the barn as a not-worst person, by the way. I loved it because other moms were standing at the rail yelling at their kids over the trainer, where my mom didn't know what I was supposed to be doing and so she had no criticism or commentary.
Speaker 4:It's like just come on, good job, good job, don't worry, don't worry, just go live.
Speaker 3:The new facility had a clubhouse and so the parents had a place to go if it was hot or if it was colder, it was raining or whatever. It was where they had a place to go, sit and hang out. It kept them off the trailer as rail in another place. I have a theory, and my mom and I talked about this when we moved there she was a lot more open to buying new horses, I would say because it was an easier place to have a conversation If everyone was comfortable, had a refrigerator or some place to have food or, I don't know, a glass of wine, whatever. When your trainer would go and say, hey, I just saw a horse we'd like to buy for Andrea, are you open to spending X? I think it really shifted because my mom had a comfortable place to hang out. She would feel like she was sitting in her car waiting for me to finish riding and then get the trainer walking up to the car and her rolling down the window and her feeling like, oh, now I have a great place to hang out, wait and have a conversation. She loved the trainers. In fact, they liked her. She was easygoing about things like no horses.
Speaker 3:All that being said, I really thought about that when I started my business that every barn should have a great place to hang out, because what an equine residence is is it's a place where your horses live. Obviously it's their stable. Ultimately, when you ride, you kind of live at the stable. Most of us don't want to leave. There are jokes ad doesm means all over the place about hey, I'm going to the barn, I'll be home in an hour and 10 hours later you're not back.
Speaker 3:It's just what it is. You're not trying to be rude or misplans or anything. You just get stuck in what you're doing at the barn lug the red horses and talking about who did it very gossipy, I think, in some regards, but it's also like a healthy environment. You're talking about supplements, or someone had a better experience with one veterinarian than another, or who's going to what show and can we all go to get whatever. That is the conversation. You're just there. Then all of a sudden, you're like, instead of just riding your horse, now you're hanging out, then you're sitting in stall. Whatever you're doing, playing around. I just find that a barn should be a really encouraging of the social activities that you guys saw in Europe. All barns should feel that way. It shouldn't feel like a place that you don't have any worse and chit chat, hang out, eat something. But also I've noticed the same thing. European barns have that in the US barns or less into that.
Speaker 1:So I'm trying to change it. Yeah, the different disciplines all coexisting beautifully as well. When you were talking about the place to go and all the memes that are circling about you're gone for an hour, but in reality you're gone all day. I have a good friend. She's an adult amateur and she was seeing this guy. I haven't told you about this yet, but she was seeing this guy who's more traditional, really wants a housewife type, and she's got this horse and lives and breath and competes and stuff. He just broke up with her. His reasoning was yeah, the horse thing it's a lot, it's like a lot. Oh, my gosh, that's horrible.
Speaker 3:My husband is super encouraging of it because it made me happy.
Speaker 1:That's where I said I was like it's good to find out how that's the thing that gives you the most joy.
Speaker 2:And it gets you out of the house.
Speaker 3:I would say also that, but my husband's also not into horses at all, but to him it's a great thing that I am into and I do. It's funny. There's this company that I'm obsessed with out of Sweden that I'm now involved with that makes an arena footing foundation, so it graphs foundation and a whole system for hydroponic grass and also sand. So I'm also working on utilizing it in different, not just in an arena but utilizing it in the facilities. I have an idea right now to take out all heart-keeping on a project so that it'll be all grass, because you can drive on this grass. Grass is pretty much indestructible.
Speaker 3:It's great for horses because it's almost injury-proof, and we're doing some work now to see if you can also ride without studs on it, which I think would be really cool because it's not soil-based, sand-based, so it's a totally different ballgame than any other grass in the world. It's proprietary, they're the only ones doing this and they've just done it, completed and installed in Wellington for a big, rock-rich field and a private facility and they have several other seaterinas installed already.
Speaker 3:In any case, I'm so excited about things like that. So no facility really wants a parking lot made of asphalt. Also, it looks terrible. So to eliminate that so that you're also eliminating injury. If you're worse gets out or whatever and scouting across your driveway. Now your driveway is just grass and that's part of the again, health among us. But in the research and the product, getting into certain product and traveling quite a lot for that and I didn't really take it totally off-topic. So I'm so into this company that I brought it to my husband's attention as something for either us to invest in or him to actually get involved in the running of the business. So he is having good conversations with the people in Sweden. We talk every day, all of us, and I was telling a friend in Germany about it and he was like oh my God, you got your husband in the worst business. That's hilarious. Wait, you're the one.
Speaker 4:You got one here you managed.
Speaker 3:Congrats. That makes two of us right now. Now we all have to go out to dinner because the technologists who have now been pushed over into the equestrian line is really funny.
Speaker 1:I can't get out once you're in. Is this the company that's targeting the footing and specifically the microplastics, which was something that you raised from our conversation that I personally wasn't aware of? Is this a company that's?
Speaker 3:right. So Europe has banned or is in process of banning microplastics and, with that being said, the geotextile footings all are microplastic based, which is terrible for the environment, terrible for your horse and your health, terrible for everything, terrible for your pocketbook as well. It's super expensive. So this product took everything back to an FBI, a group of sand, and wherever you are, you're going to find the FBI free stand, you know, like a whole stand from Germany or whatever. So it's a lot cheaper, it's a lot cleaner, it's the growth. Refills require 85% less water than any other grass in the marketplace and like. I can go on about this for the entire podcast, but I'm not going to do that. But, that being said, I'm excited that it's going to be a healthier product for horses and for us. I mean, while we're exercising and our horses exercising in a big thing filled with microplastics, it's terrible.
Speaker 1:I don't know a ton about footing. I just as a rider it was like this is good footing. This is hard. You can definitely feel it when you're walking the course.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But what is the typical kind of footing that's prolific, that has these microplastics and something that we were just at the Hampton Classic and a few months ago and I guess it's too late now, but a lot of riders were talking about the footing and it was hard and it wasn't the best and is that kind of footing something that does have the microplastics in it? Is that something that's pretty much standard, even at these really big events?
Speaker 3:Some use the geotextile footing, some people don't. There are people that use a sand arena, and also there are other arena foundation systems. This is one type, and then there's an ebb and flow where you can use sand or geotextiles, so some people are opting for sand, also because it's less expensive and easier to replace. So I think it just depends on the showrunner, show manager, show owner those are the folks that are making the decisions for the shows. And then, as far as people's own facilities, I think the riders themselves, who own their own private facilities, especially competition riders they're pretty particular about what they're putting in their own facility. They're going to do the homework.
Speaker 3:And that's where I think it's really positive, where something like me comes in, because my whole job is to know what's in the marketplace, what's new, what's better, what's being banned, all those things. That's what I do all day long, besides dealing with my clientele and dealing with my partnerships. I want to know, and it's super cool too. That's another thing that Instagram's given me is not just access to following accounts, but people that follow me, dming me and telling me about something that they've heard about that I should pay attention to. Or do I know them? Or can I make an introduction, etc. It's really I feel like without social media, but the world would be really a harder place to start a business like mine, and it's been fantastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. You're right, you're at the top of the sales phone. And this comes back to the Europeans. You were saying that they invest in things that last longer, that they will spend a bit more money up front to get high quality products that last longer. And going back to my point, which was that the European market is a bit more established and you see a lot more of these hardware innovations coming out of the European countries, like the ones you've been talking about.
Speaker 2:But for them, they always want to get into the American market, but they're always like well, do we send one sales rep across and hopefully they can go around and get us some sales before we fully commit, or they find your Instagram account. That already is built out the audience, you've already built out the following. And so, while they've done all this hard work of building out this entire backend infrastructure, which is this company and its hardware and its logistics and all that sort of stuff, you get to come in and basically be the top of the sales funnel that helps to put together a portfolio of clients that need an assortment of different products and then plug and play which of those companies or those partners you can plug into the project, which is a much more efficient way of those European companies doing sales. Then try and go door to door, horse show to horse show, and try and pick up clients with a sales rep.
Speaker 3:That's what happened with River and Rubin. They were introduced to me by their British arm, the German companies. They're in Teddinghausen, which is just outside of Bremen, and German sales and marketing exec for the company told them about me. They reached out and we had a call and I was so excited because I'd see their product and I want to be careful with what I say in some regard, like I'm not listen. This is nothing against anyone's product that's making the same product in the US.
Speaker 3:It just so happened that this worked out really well and so I chose the route with them because I felt like our philosophies were so similar Long-term health, wellness, safety, beauty felt like I found my person right. I have a husband and he is my person, but I found my question business person. When that whole thing started I was like, okay, this is so amazing. And I went straight to Germany and went to their offices and showroom and they also came to America several times. I've seen them more than I've seen my family, the Korean, in the last six months. We've been like all together all the time. So there's a guy that I work with most company and I laugh he's my work husband.
Speaker 4:I'm his work wife.
Speaker 3:We talk all day, we have calls at 5 am and 11 pm his time. That's. One of the things I'm suffering with is the nine hour time difference from LA to Western Europe. It's brutal, but in any case.
Speaker 3:So it was just such a great initial meeting of the minds and so now we've decided a love that white wellowing is super organic in the equestrian marketplace and I was a little bit of a missing piece as far as their puzzle in house design, so we're not calling it quite that.
Speaker 3:And then also I'm pretty good at marketing.
Speaker 3:So I think that I've proven that with what I've done in a year and who I'm talking to all over the world and the level of competitive equestrians and people own these businesses worldwide that I'm interested in. They felt like I was a really good fit as far as the US marketplace goes, and so they asked me to be their US representative as far as point residences and trying to help bring in exactly as new business in the United States for European brands. And then, secondarily, we're really into, exactly as we were saying, the one stop shop philosophy which brings products like the arena footing foundation company into the play. With what we're up to, there's a big building and management property management company out of Florida that we're working with Because we'd like to have someone with full knowledge and expertise at the product out of Germany that can be in the US for all the installs, instead of them sending people from Germany which is how they were doing it before, which was not efficient and also gives us the ability to be more available.
Speaker 3:So it's just. I think, as you said, it's just, it makes all the sense of the world right. You go to one person and then that person facilitates all the other stuff that you either you don't know how to do it, or you don't want to do it, or you're excited that you found someone that does it, so that you were being educated in the process and you're long for that part. You'd like that part of the ride. So I think it works kind of no matter who you are in the question mark. 100%. Yeah, you are just pulling up the Instagram account.
Speaker 1:I've obviously thoroughly stalked the page. It's so stunning, but it's really amazing that you've done this in a year. Was this just because you are putting out really unique renderings, or is it a mix of that, but also consistency, if you could kind of point to how you've been able to grow, because you're what well, 30, almost 39,000 people Like how have you been able to do that so quickly? I don't know.
Speaker 3:I'm 100%. But I think one of the things that kind of brought attention to my page is I'm coming at it from the design mind. So instead of just listening what's being utilized by that facility or the location or the who put the stalls in or whatever, which I always credit any information that I possibly can my objective was to tell people in a positive way. So there's no criticism in anything, except for my stupid. I'd love to remodel this comment which I was like had Jane, because they had sold it. I didn't get it. Moving on, I already talked about that. So I think because it's very positive. And so I started off with costly looking for different facilities all over the world that drew my eye in a positive way, in a design and architecture sense and in a way that they had built in a good way for the horses and riders. So I was kind of right at the beginning and started getting my feet under me and it started growing really quickly and I was like wait a minute, what's happening here? And then I kind of changed it up. So I come up with kind of the concept of what they're about and I think people really responded to whatever the made up. Title was like enchanted German castle. Right, people are like wait, there's an enchanted German, hold on, I want to see the people came through quickly in the word of man spread while I was doing that. So that was me hosting the event. So I was doing that. So that was me posting to start building following to see what people liked. So I was using people's lights and comments and follows and all of that to see what was drawing attention. So then, while I was riding my first car to the barn for my potential client slash Instagram audience that was maybe at that time like a thousand people or two done, whatever people and then I posted that. So then I was able to take the feedback from that and those drawings started getting attention.
Speaker 3:And then I started getting some good attention from some of the publications in the equestrian world and some folks that wanted to represent me in a marketing capacity or work with my company, which I actually decided kind of not to go that route. It felt redundant to pay someone for what Instagram was doing for me for free better than I felt any company could ostensibly accomplish. Plus, I learned that you can also have a back and forth conversation with the publication without someone representing you in the middle, which I think people should know that if you're interested in talking to those people. But Instagram, they have Instagram too, right? Hi, you know I have an awesome story to tell you or whatever is going on in your worst world.
Speaker 3:And then I don't know, it happened so quickly, it was a few months in it just something that happened and it's fun to the people. I really wanted to see that. I wanted them to see what I was doing. And one of them if you ever hear this, he and I I'm not a real soccer and you know because we're friends, but like I was stocking Keanu Connor, an Irish Olympic medal winning show jumper, he and built what I believe is probably the most perfect facility in the world, right From what I know, and he spent a lot of time and energy and research and money and working with a wide variety of people and somehow and I don't know if this has anything to do with me having followers burst or whatever he followed me.
Speaker 3:So some really cool people started following me that are important in what people are seeing and knowing as far as what's going on in the question world, and they are experts in their field. So I started being taken seriously by people that are experts about really different and it moved things kind of in an upward trajectory as far as who is looking at me and that word of mouth and then kaboom, host, getting seen and liked and commented and engaged with that regard, amazing.
Speaker 1:Thanks, keanu Connor.
Speaker 2:Well that's great. Well, that's been amazing. Thank you very much for joining us today. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So where can people find you and get in contact? Obviously, your Instagram equine underscore residences Right, but if they want to work with you on a project or partner in some capacity, they really like what you're doing how can they find you, or is that the best way to find you?
Speaker 3:It's probably the best way to find me, but as well there's my website, which is wwwquineresidencecom, or you can email us directly at info at equineresidencescom.
Speaker 2:Awesome. And what's the perfect sort of customer for you? What is the profile of someone who should reach out to you if they're going to do it today?
Speaker 3:Best customer to me is someone who is really invested in a long-term project for themselves that is going to last for a very long time, probably has some pretty deep pockets and will be open to things that I'm spending a lot of time, as we've talked about, researching the technology, the better product in the marketplace, things that are maybe a little more expensive, that are going to last a long time, and I think person who loves horses or who loves it their kid loves horses.
Speaker 3:I think that's a bad one. Those are definitely super exciting people to me and people that, whatever discipline you're riding in, I understand your disciplines. I won't say I have one preference over another. I've been working with Dressaund riders and Jumping riders and all that. I think the ideal client is someone that also listens really well and likes the build process, because building anything is frustrating. So I guess the final thing I would say is people who probably enjoy good design of their home as well. Right, so, because what we're trying to provide is the extension of the home where you sleep in and to the home where you do everything else at your worst person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I've seen renderings from an architecture space when it comes to homes, like I showed you the other day. What would a mountain or what would a villa in the mountains using AI look like? I mean the type of account that you have. I've only seen you do when it comes to AI and equestrian, but I've seen some others that are just no residential wise and it's just. It's really cool to see what's possible, especially when it comes to incorporating the technologies that possible in a house. So why wouldn't we want to do that for our horses too?
Speaker 3:I couldn't agree with you more Well and you know, as I said, we render everything in a house when we're building a house, because it's spending that money, saves so much money on not making a mistake later. I feel like we're giving that over and I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but no one renders like I do in equestrian community. My renderings are the best and I really spent a lot of time finding the right people to do that with me and they're free, like they're full time. They work for me, they don't work for anyone. We are work because we have so much stuff going on in the hopper.
Speaker 3:You know, as far as the brand of equestrian residences with other products that we're working with, et cetera, that I think will be exciting for either architectural clients or people that don't want to be my client as far as building a facility, but will be a client as far as liking something a little further up the high end chain in the marketplace for what they're already buying and they're spending money on. So I have a vision for what equine residences can bring to the marketplace. That's not just Sure.
Speaker 2:So, if I can sum that up, if you are looking to build a high end equestrian facility, money isn't too much of an issue and rather than doing the hard work yourself, you want to outsource that hard work to a professional who spends all their time and effort making sure that they're up to date with all the materials, technologies and processes that are bleeding edge in the market. That's right. And equine residences is the person to call.
Speaker 3:That's right, thank you.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Well, thank you very much Again. Next time you're based in LA, is that right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you have to spend some time in Florida.
Speaker 3:So I am based in LA, but I also spend most of the season in Florida, so January to April, and then I'm back and forth because I'm working there.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, wherever we are, we'll probably cross paths. In LA Florida, We'll have to grab a drink. We'll definitely come to you. I would love that.
Speaker 3:I would love that.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you need some friends to come and look at some barns in Germany and the Netherlands, I mean just let us know. We'll meet you there, we'll do an audit with you, it's a deal.
Speaker 3:Come with me. I would love to have the company. It's super fun yeah.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Thank you very much. See you later, thanks guys, bye.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for listening to the latest episode of the Pegasus podcast. As you heard from our mid-roll, we are also releasing an equestrian event management software platform. Now it's easier than ever to host, sign up and sponsor for any equestrian event in the world, thanks to all the features of the Pegasus app. To sign up, go to our homepage at wwwthepegasusapp. That is wwwthepegasusapp. See you next time.