Pegasus Podcast
@thepegasusapp https://www.thepegasus.app/🐴 Conversations with the movers and shakers of the global equestrian industry. Hosted by Pegasus founders Sam Baynes and Jen Tankel.
Pegasus Podcast
Competing and working in the equestrian industry across three continents - which one is best?
This episode is brought to you by Zoetis.
Jade Maillet's traveled the world for the past decade gaining a wealth of experience riding and training with world champions.
Along the way, she settled in Mexico City to found Stable 8, one of the city’s premier venues for horse riding training.
She also had a life-changing injury that led her to creating several sources of equestrian-related income outside of her training.
Jade’s story is one that must be listened to—especially if you want to know what it’s like to be an equestrian entrepreneur in a foreign country.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Why being dependent on your ridership as a source of income is inherently risky due to chance of injury.
- How to make money beyond training and boarding in the equestrian industry.
- Why there are so many more professional riders in Europe than in America.
- How the idea that bad European mares being sold to Americans due to policy is totally a myth.
- And more.
Be sure to follow The Pegasus Podcast’s official Instagram and TikTok for new episode updates and highlights from each show.
As an avid eventer, you may have heard of the equine regenerative medicine device Pro-Stride APS® (autologous protein solution device) available through your veterinarian.
But did you know the company behind Pro-Stride has been by the side of horses and their caregivers for more than 70 years?
Be sure to visit ZoetisEquine.com or follow @ZoetisEquine on Facebook and Instagram to learn more.
🐴 This episode is brought to you by Pegasus, the first modern event management system that makes it easy to host and run equestrian events. Sign up for early access at www.thepegasus.app.
Be sure to follow Pegasus on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and subscribe to The Oxer, the #1 weekly newsletter for global equestrian industry happenings. 🗞️
We are excited to announce that this episode is brought to you by Zoetis. As an avid inventor, you may have heard of the equine regenerative medicine device, prostride APS, available through your veterinarian, but do you know that the company behind Prostride, zoetis, has been by the side of horses and their caregivers for more than 70 years? Be sure to visit wwwzoetisequinecom or follow at Zoetis Equine on Facebook and Instagram to learn more.
Speaker 4:Hi everyone, my name is Noah Levy and I am the producer of our Pegasus podcast, hosted by our founders, sam Baines and Jen Tankle. On today's show, we are hosting Jean Millet, who is the founder and owner of Stable 8, one of Mexico City's top stables. Jean has traveled across the world as both a rider and a trainer and has recently experienced lots of business success, not just from her stable, but also from stables around the world hiring her for their marketing. This episode is for those who want to dominate as entrepreneurs in the equestrian industry. Keep your ears out and your heels down. Alright, let's get into it.
Speaker 1:So we can kind of get by with not really knowing basic words. The problem when we were in France is people just thought that we were French, and so when they would speak to us we didn't know what to say back, and then they just thought we were stupid. So we're like when we go to European countries where English is their primary language. We really should make a more.
Speaker 3:Concerned effort.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to learn some more words besides Merci and Bonjour and croissant.
Speaker 3:That's not arrogant. You just didn't get around to it.
Speaker 2:Who's got time. French are not really nice with tourists and I think it's weird. But we are nicer to Spanish people that doesn't know anything about French than Germans or American and that they will try to speak French and we are not nice. It's really weird. A lot of my Mexican friends, they love France and they go off and in France. And they all told me no, when we learn in France, we stop speaking English. If we don't know, we try in Spanish, because at least the reaction is going to be nicer than if we try to say in English.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's actually a fantastic little trick that France has pulled off. It's easier to be renowned for being arrogant than it is to try and learn another language. Sure, but that's a good hack.
Speaker 2:It's all about marketing.
Speaker 1:But I studied four years of Spanish, so that's good to know Next time we're in France. I'm just going to try to pull out some Spanish words and they'll be like oh, she's just huge.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, it's for the pie. It's great to officially have you back.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for the invite and the opportunity.
Speaker 3:So, to kick things off, we'll get back into your background. We'll ask some questions to help set this up. But to kick things off for the audience just want to give like a couple of minute overview of who you are in your background so people can have some context.
Speaker 2:Of course. Do you want me to go back to the start?
Speaker 3:No, I'm like it's a great summary of who you are and what your career has been. Where were you?
Speaker 1:born. What was the hospital? That's your moment after.
Speaker 2:So I really early on, I knew from a young age that I wanted to have something to do with horses. I dropped out at school without graduation because I didn't feel school was for me. I was in between science ball, which I loved, but more I was focusing on studying and less time I had to go and ride, and I quickly realized that that was not for me. So I'm a little bit harsh when I do decision. And so I was around 17. One year left of graduation, I told everyone I'm quitting and I want to start working. And they were like maybe not, maybe you should keep going.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one more year.
Speaker 2:And one more year and I said, no, I don't. And so we come to an agreement with my parents, which they are super open minded and they listen. So they knew that if I was focusing and then really having a goal, I would give everything. And so they were like, okay, you can quit, because I wanted to work straightaway, but on the side you need to keep. So at that time, online didn't exist, so that was not online courses, but that was like mailing courses.
Speaker 2:Mailing so this, yeah, so I had to graduate it with. So the teacher would send three months books and all the things you had to do and you had to do it at home and send it back by mail at that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so so, yeah, my parents said, yes, you can start working at 17, but you have to study on the side. So from 17 to 18, I did both. I find a job, a full time job in a small breeding stable next to my place and coming home at night and studying at night. And at the end of 18, I graduated at school online school, I don't know how you call it.
Speaker 2:I graduated and then my first boss at that time told me okay, you're super motivated, but you need to also have something else than just a school diploma in the equestrian industry if you want to keep going. And he kind of opened my mind on telling me that being a professional writer is a dream, is a dream from every kid, and he warned me that they was not accessible. Like, to be honest, it's something that is really really inaccessible even in Europe. So he said, just to back off, to have a second option in case you should graduate it as a horse teacher, which is we can talk about it again later but in France you have to go to school to teach. You cannot proclaim yourself coach just because you want to teach.
Speaker 2:So I did that, for normally it's a two years and I did it in one year. Again, I didn't want to do two years. I had an option to do everything in one year, so I did in one year, graduated, and so by that time I was 19. And I had a crazy luck opportunity that basically my first job after I graduated as a school teacher. As a horse school teacher, I landed it in my first five star stable in France.
Speaker 3:Before you jump into that, I just want to go back and just ask a couple questions. So I looked at your website online. It said that you got into. So you obviously grew up obsessed with horses and you got into that obsession because of the movie Black Stain.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're into a family of riders, or was this just you discovering this?
Speaker 2:No, literally. I discovered this movie on the Wednesday afternoon in my grandparents house. No one has to do anything with horses. And also another big thematic in my family is that we were extremely poor. I'm coming from an extremely poor neighborhood, so like riding was just impossible, even one time a week. My parents tried everything, but early on, that's when my parents knew that I would. If I decided to work, I would really work is that to pay off my classes, my lessons, my my horses classes? I would go every holiday that I had going sleep in the stable and with my instructor at that time teacher that I had it from seven years. I would sleep at her place and work as a kid from 12 years old to my 17th, every every holiday, and in exchange she would give me extra money to ride and pay off one show. Literally, my parents could offer to show a year and my teacher would offer me from her payroll one extra show because I was working for free and helping anything like.
Speaker 3:One extra year sounds like she was getting a bargain.
Speaker 2:She was really trying. She was trying because I was motivating and, yeah, literally no one had to do anything with horses and my parent could not afford it. But I fell in love. Yeah, I fell in love and that on my sofa in my grandparents house, on the, on the black stallion, and I said this is what I want.
Speaker 3:So so much of your wanting to drop out of school wasn't so much a case of the average kid who's like I just hate school, I don't want to do this and therefore I'm going to go into the workforce. For you, it was a case of impatience. You were like I all I want to do is be around horses. And the school is really getting in the way, and the sooner I drop out, the sooner I could spend full time working to earn more money so I can spend more time training.
Speaker 2:Yes, 100%, and it was another incentive inside of that is that because my school was in a poor neighborhood, so my school rank in national was low.
Speaker 2:The thing is my option where I was passionate about a social economic and I had two options. So follow that path and unfortunately, with my grade, I had amazing grade in social economic, but to go to the school that I wanted so the best in Paris I would have to have extremely high grade because of the rank of my school. With my grades, if I would have been in a nice school in Paris, I could have applied to the nicer in university, but because of the rank of my school I needed to be exceptional and I was exceptional in those, but I was not exceptional in Mathematics or in English, and so, unfortunately, I quickly realized that for my social position I didn't have the same chances as the others and so for me it was all going to the best university or not going at all. And so when I realized that it was gonna be almost impossible to go in the best university, then I said no, I don't wanna go.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that's interesting that that's the case in France. In America it sounds like there's way more initiatives to be able to help people that are in that situation where you are a really good student in that type of school, you do have a chance in a really good, say, university in the States. I'm surprised to hear that in France it's not the case.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's kind of the same in Australia in the sense of, depending on what school you're at, as well as what subjects you do, they scale differently and ultimately you get a mark out of a hundred at the end of your high school and that mark out of a hundred is scalable. So if you don't get the mark, you don't get into the university. Sounds like it's quite similar to France.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah, right, so it works.
Speaker 3:So to drop out. You go to, you start working full time and then but you are encouraged to go and train to be a horse trainer. So in France there's actually we would literally just talking about this on a podcast. In America, there isn't really any certification to become a horse trainer and that leads to one there being a lot of trainers in the American economy, which means that a lot of trainers are competing for students because there's so many trainers out there. But it also means that a lot of people who are starting to ride can be misled for years by a wrong trainer that don't know any better. So in France, you actually have a certification. Do you have to do it in order to do the job?
Speaker 2:You have to, yeah, yeah, yeah, you cannot, yeah, yeah, you have to have it or in order to teach it's like legally impossible to teach without this, really, and so what does that entail?
Speaker 1:I don't want to get too ahead, but like what, if so you?
Speaker 2:have a minimum of how much you know how to ride on the three main disciplines, so dressage, jumping and course country. You have exams on the three at the end of the school and then after that you have psychology, which is divided by range of age. So you start learning the psychology of from three to six, six to 12, 12 to 18, and then adult, and then from there they teach you the basic line. Obviously it's not a psychology education, but they teach you how the brain works, how the cognitive works, depending on the age, and so how you need to structure your lesson regarding on who you have in your lesson. And then so you have this.
Speaker 3:Sorry, that's the psychology of the person, I assume, not the psychology of the horse, of the client, yes, of the client yes, how long is this course?
Speaker 2:Normally it's in two years, but you have option, like me, where you can do it in one year.
Speaker 3:Right, okay.
Speaker 2:And so then you have this. You have course about safety, obviously, all safety, about your lesson, the ponies, the clients in the writing lesson and outside of the writing lesson. And then you also have pedagogy. Then they teach you how to structure your lesson regarding each goal because, again, in France we have levels and those are mandatory. We cannot go away with it. So it's called Gallop, gallop from one to seven, and this is mandatory in every school. So you have baseline on what Gallop one needs to be done and normally, on a normal rhythm, you go one Gallop every year and then the last two takes a little longer. Six and seven takes maybe two years or something. So you take those baseline of what they need to know when they are at that level and then you structure six months to a year, the whole year, your lesson with those goals, so you learn how to break down the evolution that you need to have to reach that goal with your kids at the end of the year Right.
Speaker 3:So it's very, very structured.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, it's very. And in that time you also have to be half-time employed by a horse school or a pony club to be in practice. So you're not only in school, you're like half-time in practice.
Speaker 3:So what is the cause of this structure? America is loosey goosey by comparison.
Speaker 1:The wild west, we just had a conversation before our call with you about exactly this, which is anyone in America can start a business. If Sam wanted to create Sam's training LLC today and put himself online and be a horse trainer, he could, and it's terrifying, yeah.
Speaker 2:Edith. We have law like literally, for example, I have one that I remember is like depending on the age of the kids, you now allowed, for example, by law, to go on a trail ride with more than eight ponies by yourself as a trainer Right. You have safety law like this that the government protect the safety on the structure.
Speaker 3:What is the source of this structure? Is this just a France-wide culture? And pretty much every sport, every club has this level of structure. Yeah any sport.
Speaker 1:Yes, any sport, and so it's an export. I imagine that the people that are participating in this sport are very competent equestrians by default of this program, or is there any kind of pushback that like? For me, hearing about this and knowing how it is in the States, this sounds remarkable. I imagine the average equestrian in France is very competent as a trainer.
Speaker 2:Yes, so it has a downside is that because it's mandatory, then everyone wants to do it. We've seen around years that you have different discipline and those riders and trainers that do only maybe endurance, another discipline in a classroom, that they don't have the level of riding but they do have good level enough in their discipline to teach. So then they start to lower down the level of riding skill and so that the downside is that instead of and now they did, but at that time it was only the three major discipline and so you had to have that skill level, and so because everyone had to do this, then they lower down the level instead of just divided that program into specific discipline. So now they do. Now they do, they have a license for just going trail riders, those club that work only on tourism, you can do that now, but before everything was just all together. So for a few years the level of instructor and teacher were really low because of riding skill that makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Interesting Right so you said something really interesting there, which was that because it was official, it became really popular and everybody wanted to do it. What I thought you were going to say was, because it's official and mandatory, it actually decreased the number of people who wanted to get into it because you've created this financial two year commitment barrier to actually create legitimate horse trainers.
Speaker 3:So is the reason it made it more popular. Is it as simple as people see it as a legitimate career path? So now it's a legitimate career path and the certification gives you confidence. There will be a career. There will be a paycheck at the end of it.
Speaker 2:Yes. So now it's a motion, and it's a motion, yes, it's not just like an ID in the air that it's not really structured with that diploma. Now people around you that has nothing to do with horses would understand. Oh okay, so it's structured, you have something at the end. You have a diploma like it's make it safer, let's say as a career path.
Speaker 1:Helena too. Is that regulation coming from the country of France, or is that coming from the NFE?
Speaker 2:No from the country Right.
Speaker 3:And is it taught at universities? Is it taught in private horse training companies that run training programs?
Speaker 2:So it's not private and it's not a university. It's taught by a structure that are governmental but under each region. So they are under the federation, the French Kastri and federation. Those structures are under this federation.
Speaker 3:Right gotcha. So does it work? I mean, is the promise real that if you do this you will get a job at the end, or does it actually create a lot of horse trainers and more horse trainers than at France needs? That results in like not enough jobs.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, the reverse, because in Europe in general it's full, full full of pony clubs and horse school Right. So it's in demand, it's actually in demand. So, no, you'll find, maybe not the job of your dream, but you'll find a job.
Speaker 1:Do people struggle to pay their bills when they take this career path?
Speaker 2:We get paid. Because we work half time, you get paid a little amount of money and then you can have subvention by the region, so by the state, let's say, depending on the age or what you study before you can have subvention. Me I was exonerated off half of the courses because of my grade. My grade is on the normal path, so you have help. They really help. I mean for that France is a killer for taxes and killer for for entrepreneur, but to help young people it's really good.
Speaker 3:So does that mean that because of that legitimate certification and that career path and that investment by the state in the youth, does that basically result in France becoming a big exporter of horse trainers?
Speaker 2:Do French horse trainers they're respected throughout Europe and then they go into other countries and get jobs, or If we were speaking in English from the beginning, maybe yes, but no, it doesn't make us more respected on the EU, because I would say we are a little bit cold in. Well, I'm not, I'm not in that case, but in general we are cold in moving out of France because we are blocked by the languages and so you're not seeing. And also other countries, other European country doesn't work that way. Some of them have some certification, but it's not mandatory. It's not making more available. No, outside of France, no.
Speaker 3:So just to add on that, the true reason you gave was that they're unable to move because they don't speak another language other than French. Totally but if they could? Is the French training infrastructure respected by? If you could speak fluent German and you came up through the French system? Do the other European nations respect the French training pipeline or do they equally not care?
Speaker 2:Some really respected. I'd say in Americans too, actually, when I would speak about this. They respected because they think it's great that it's structured and we have law above us about safety and understand also how it works on pedagogy and psychology. But as a coach, it doesn't mean that we teach better in, it doesn't mean that we produce better writer than in another country in Europe, and that has also the otherwise in that it's not about the way we learn. I think the way we learn how to teach it's amazing. We really go deep. Which other country doesn't go that deep? If I go back I still have my books with me on the pedagogy and on small kids. It's insane. You really understand each range of age. But it doesn't mean that and I think also it come maybe because they lower the level of entries that we produce at the end better writer. We produce better amateur writer, that enjoying safety environments and progress nicely, but the outcome is the same as another country in the writing score.
Speaker 3:Interesting.
Speaker 1:But is that what the country is trying to achieve? Are they trying to get the average writer in France to become at that elite level, or are they happy with making sure that the average adult amateur is competent?
Speaker 2:Exactly, we are focusing on more amateur that are structured and stop writing on their own. When the adult and the by horse accident happened and because many, many years ago the sport were really closed, so the government and they really tried to up and up the industry and lower down the cost. That it get more accessible. Then it become, because it started be a bit more accessible, then it become more popular. And so the main focus here is we call it was here, which is was here. I would translate it by enjoyable. The question my industry guideline is enjoyable, not competition, not like this is the French guideline from the Federation is the majority is for to ride in the weekend, enjoy your trail ride, enjoy your little training, the here and there and that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I gotcha Interesting. Okay, so you go going back then. So you're doing this training program and this is the path that you've said to go down. Your parents are supportive your training. So what happened after that, once you got into a rhythm in the school?
Speaker 3:Hey, as a kind of ask one question before we go into that, that's a good question. So you're?
Speaker 1:good at hijacking my question.
Speaker 3:It's just one question before we move on to you know. You know your career, your career after schooling. One thing I find really interesting is how methodical the infrastructure is in France to make sure that everything is safe and secure and regimented, but you guys don't have any of the liability paperwork and stuff when it comes to registering for competitions. So how does that reality exist simultaneously, that you want everything to be safe and structured but you don't really believe in having liability paperwork signed?
Speaker 1:It's like the opposite. Here Everything is crazy and yet we sue like crazy.
Speaker 2:Because maybe our health system in general is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the idea is that we've got the system, we don't need to sue.
Speaker 2:Yes, we don't have that culture and for us it's a big. I think you could hurt a lot with the French people If you speak to them. Is that? What about? American is like oh, they're crazy, they sue everything for anything just to have money. Why they would sue this? I think it's the culture in general, is not the question? Is the culture in general that you don't sue, Except if you really have a big trouble but an accident and you don't sue the person or the infrastructure for the accident. It's an accident. That's what it's called. It's an accident. It's no one's fault.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just what I'm putting in. Exactly I've got one more question.
Speaker 4:It's just on that point.
Speaker 3:So where does insurance come into that? Because in America the reason everyone sues is because everyone believes they're not suing the individual. They're suing the individual to get money from the insurance agent who insures the individual. When you run equestrian operations, do you guys have insurance for everything?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the thing is like our insurance cover everything. So you have the normal assurance that is baseline, that everyone has, and then you can have extra ones like complimentary ones, and those two covered you already for everything. And then you have a little one that is in your writing license, that's covered in case your insurance doesn't cover you, that's covered you at the show, and then so it's between them. When an accident happened or something happened, then it's between those three entities of assurance fight who's going to pay more and less, and that's it.
Speaker 3:It's interesting though, because that's a good like. I haven't realized this until just now. When I was before I moved to the States eight years ago, I thought of insurance the same way you think of insurance, which is, if shit happens and I incur a big bill or medical bill or something, I want to be covered. And I've just realized now that, since I've been living in America, I now think of insurance as legal protection.
Speaker 3:I don't think of it as my health safety net. I think of it as my legal safety net. So the American attitude is that you need to have insurance and you need to sign paperwork in case you get sued. But their culture is you know, you need insurance in case you break your neck and you need medical insurance.
Speaker 2:Because you're not going to get sued. You have a completely different perspective of how it works Basically. You're never going to get sued normally if you run a normal life, even if you have an accident, you're not going to get sued, like most of the time. Obviously I'm not talking about extreme cases, but so, yes, my mindset is and that's why sometimes maybe I have hard time about that subject here. But and where's here? Like in Mexico and America, like outside our friends, I would say? Because for me, when I pay an assurance, in my head they're going to cover me for everything, which is not the case anymore.
Speaker 1:Well, what's scary, too, is you think that you can get these different insurance premiums and just do certain things to protect yourself from getting sued. And you can still get all those and hopefully you'll be protected, but that still isn't stopping anyone from suing you. Anyone in America can sue anyone for anything at any time. And it's scary yeah, it really is.
Speaker 3:I mean it's a dog ate dog world. Yeah, anyway, I'm going to check the conversation up, jen. Back to your question.
Speaker 1:I just want to get you on the timeline. Like, as you said, right, you started off in France and now you're in Mexico, so there's a lot of happening in between.
Speaker 3:So in between looking at your profile, you went and works for Philippe Rosier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my favorite show. How do you actually pronounce his name? Philippe Rosier.
Speaker 3:Philippe Rosier, yes, and then Eric Lamas.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:And then Joslan Sik.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:And then I'm not even going to put out. Paul Chocomole.
Speaker 2:Chocomole yeah.
Speaker 3:And then Eric again. Right, so you've, and when you went. So Philippe is French, Philippe is French, Eric is Canadian, Jos is Netherlands.
Speaker 2:Now, but uh-huh.
Speaker 3:And then Paul was German, so did you go to each of these countries or were they you just you did, and you worked for the question industry in each of these countries. So, rather than picking your brain about what it was like to work for an Olympian, because that's common territory what I'd love to ask you about is what was, what were the key things that you noticed that were different about the equestrian career experience, as well as the equestrian industry and culture between those different continents or countries that you worked in, and now you're in Mexico, so now you can add Mexico to that as well.
Speaker 2:So I know I'm going to speak about North America in general, even if they have some differences in between Mexico, canada and America. The major, I think the major thing that's striked me in the beginning was that North America is an amateur market whereas in Europe is more, is a professional market and the career path as well. So in, let's say so, my experience is only fortunately it's big shows, so five star shows. So I would say to reach that level, each European is that you're going to see is a professional. And then when you watch some Americans popping in and out, sometimes you have obviously the really good professional that are there for many years. But the difference is that you will see way more North Americans that jumping big. There are actually amateurs still studying or actually working and do this on the weekend. Then in Europe it's not happening. Amateurs on the bigger level, it does not. So that's the first culture shock I had when I started.
Speaker 3:So, just so perfectly understand this, what you're saying is is that in North America, even at the highest level of competition, you have amateurs competing, which is their part time thing that they do, whereas in Europe, at the highest levels, everyone is competing. That's all they do. That's their profession.
Speaker 1:Yes, In those in everywhere else, then, because one of the primary reasons why people are at the adult amateur level here and then they have another job on the weekend is because they just can't afford to compete at the professional level full time, so they have to have that other thing that helps pay the bills. So in Europe, because the average person that is competing at that level is a professional, is there just the infrastructure in place to be able to help them afford that level of competition where they wouldn't need to have an outside job or be at a lower status?
Speaker 2:So I think it comes to the cost in general of the sports in Europe and in America. The sport in Europe is more accessible, way more accessible. So a cost of a horse, I'd say no, it's been a long time I am not in Europe, but let's say maybe the last 10 years were around 500, I would say US dollar a month to have a horse at a good boarding place, which in that time I remember in Florida was a minimum of 1500. So you have a thousand difference. At that time you had a thousand difference in the same period of time. It's huge. So for us it's more accessible. So, and then the whole sports structure is different. So it also helped.
Speaker 2:But I would say the cost is one thing where professional can have more horses and become a professional, maybe a little bit easier. The downside is that you as a professional, you make way less money in Europe than you would do in North America Because the market is amateur. So you would charge, your prices would charge would be way up in North America than in Europe. So the downside is that the professional Europeans are poor. Let's break it like this you may see them on sometimes on big shows, but the average professional it's someone that is struggling every month to pay their bill, work 15 hours a day with no day off, and are understaffed. That's the reality of being a professional in Europe.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like it's pretty similar here too. It's just you can charge more, but you still have very high expenses here. So it kind of ends up being the same reality, no matter where you are.
Speaker 2:But your sponsor would have, or your clients have, way more to invest in America than in Europe. So I would say, if you find a sponsor in first of all in Europe, it's harder to find people that just want to sponsor you in being in the sport and in average they have way more to invest in America than in Europe.
Speaker 3:So there's more billionaires in America.
Speaker 2:And also if they want to be involved in the sport they really like to invest. They are not shy. They are not shy to invest, they are not shy to say I'm the owner and they are not shy to say, well, it's an investment. But there's also my happiness over the weekend to see that I'm my horse doing this and this and this and the outcome is probably not earning any money out of it. It's just like a sponsor like Formula One right that in Europe they're more like I will help you. But then I want to return an of us and I return on investment on it.
Speaker 3:Really so it's more of a professional business.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So does that mean that the sponsors in Europe are more typically businesses and investment funds as opposed to high net worth individuals?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right. I mean, you have exception, of course, and you have amazing sponsor in Europe as well, but you find more professionals. That's going to sponsor you as a company then, or for return on investment and seeing as a business then, seeing as a just spending money because I love the sport.
Speaker 1:How does that work then? Does the company approach the rider, or does the rider seek out the company to invest in them?
Speaker 2:In general, is the rider who need to seek out. The rider needs to be everything. The rider needs to be the manager, the accounting, the marketer, the everything.
Speaker 3:So those businesses that are doing the sponsoring. I can't imagine the economics of an investment makes sense in the sense of I will give you this X amount of money and you're going to go win this many competitions and pay me back 2X. I imagine it's majority of the equestrian brands or high end luxury consumer brands that are sponsoring the rider in order to advertise or market their products Is that.
Speaker 2:Not especially Half and half.
Speaker 3:Really Like yes, because so the economics of investing in a rider and getting prize money back. That's possible in Europe.
Speaker 2:That's a big thing in Europe, prize money.
Speaker 2:And so let's be clear, most of the sponsors that the rider would find in the If you listen to them, the first horse that they had together with that sponsor would normally be a horse for sale, so a quick return on investments and generally it goes good.
Speaker 2:So then they invest a bit for another horse, but longer, and that's how it escalated to have a sponsor for a long term in general. So basically, what riders are looking for and pitch to sponsors is that we buying this one at, let's say, young horse and then in two years or a year and a half we sell it for a double, and so that's one kind of partnership. And then you have the second one when the sponsor invest in horses that jump bigger and where then the prize money is taking in consideration. So then you have a contract with this, or you take 100% of the prize money but then you pay the show expenses or you have the giver, the rider, percentage of the horse as an owner, so they have a share in the horse. It's all depending on each agreement. It's not one like everyone does, it's like everyone does a different. But prize money is a big thing when it comes to top riders, like five-star top riders, prize money is really in a consideration of the contract.
Speaker 3:Right, and that lower level. Just to clarify that. So basically, the idea is is we're going to buy a horse that's young and it's cheap. I'm going to ride it. We're going to compete. The results that I get from competing are going to create a historic data of performance that increases the valuation of the horse. Then I'm going to sell the horse as a higher quality horse.
Speaker 2:Yes, Right, so the rider creates the value by competing.
Speaker 3:Yes, interesting I can't, I cannot believe. I find it really amazing that this happens a lot in Europe, and I say that because we spent a lot of time talking to investors and all that sort of stuff, and it's not always a case of are you actually going to give me money back or not. It is a case of are you going to give me money back and, if you are, is it going to be a better return than I would get if I went and put my money over here? Doing this instead, I'm trying to get people to invest in this channel and not put their money into something else. It blows my mind.
Speaker 2:Yes, I have one client right now and so he's really new habit for the last four years, so he was really new to the equestrian industry and that's how you make me think of it. Is that so he would speak and ask a question. Has someone like you that has nothing about investment, would see investment in another industries, so would bring it to me like this? And so the thing is it's a high risk investment. Of course it's a high risk investment in the way of animals. Anything can happen. They can worth a million and the next day worth nothing because he get claimed and he's never going to come back. It's a high risk investment, but if you look at the return on investment in a short amount of years, it's humongous. So you have a huge reward if everything is good. But again, huge reward while big risk. So those investors that like playing and like gambling, they will mind the high risk because if everything goes good then it's a high paycheck at the end.
Speaker 3:So something that we've talked about a lot over the years is, in Europe, the fact that horses fall under the category of consumer goods and that they are falling under consumer protection laws. Have you come across this much in Europe? Because horses are classified as consumer goods, so they're basically, as far as the regulators concern, they're the same as a fridge, which is crazy. But because of that, consumer protection laws come into place, which is that if a product is purchased and is considered faulty within one to two years and that time period is from country to country then the buyer can return the product.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:And get a full refund. And so we talk about it regularly, as in the American market, and Americans love to buy from Europe because they believe in the beauty of the European bloodlines and the brag about buying a European horse. But just using logic, our thought process is well, europeans likely are not going to sell their best. They're going to reserve their best horses to sell to other Europeans because there's less risk of there being that factory fault.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they'd probably sell their super risky horse to the Americans, because the Americans can't ask for paybacks.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that happened in reality? No, no, for the main reason is that Americans are our best clients because they double the value of a horse period. This is how the market works. We see an American and we have a saying at the zero, at the end of the horse. This is true.
Speaker 2:This is how it works. So the thing is Americans is the best clients for Europeans. So no, in the reverse. And also Americans have a huge vat check, buying vat check, so they would ask so much more than the European. So at the end we do the reverse we reserve the horse that we know and we know that is 100% healthy, and then we wish that the vets not going to find anything that we never see, and we reserve those horses for America.
Speaker 1:But are you speaking primarily at the top, so that five star level? Because what about the ones that are at the adult amateur? Maybe they're not, that they don't have high aspirations, but they've got a lot of money, so they want to get that European import, but they're never going to make it to the Grand Prix, nor do they care to, but they still want that European bloodline. So what about that? I'd say, like lower tiers. So what Sam's saying, could that be more? Could that actually be the reality?
Speaker 2:in that middle tier, have the feeling that we are scared of getting refusal with an American vets.
Speaker 2:So even if it's for a smaller matter, a lot of dealers won't risk it to go through and we, to be honest, those horses that has something that you can return, they usually try to be sold to small amateur a bit lost in Europe that doesn't want to do so much. Those horses would go to those people in Europe than trying to send it to America where we know that, because sometimes this is a culture in America and I think it's really good. But even for a 30,000 US dollar horse they're going to come and spend 5000 on a vets check, which for us it's crazy. Sometimes in France you buy a 20, 30,000 with no vet check because the price doesn't Worth to spend. On another five-side American doesn't think twice and that doesn't matter the price. They're gonna do a vet check, maybe for sure. You have Exception, but most of the dealers that wants to keep an healthy business, they won't send those horses to America. They won't even try because they know that the vets gonna it's gonna find something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you always hear about just are in bad eggs and whatnot in any industry, I just think we have a lot of, of course, a lot of anecdotes from hearing firsthand stories from adult amateurs. So they weren't looking to get the cream of the crop, but they were importing the horse and they get it here and within months the horse kind of breaks down. So we've heard a lot about those types of.
Speaker 3:But now that you say that it makes so much, it's so obvious. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. It's like if you're a European seller, you would spend so much time investing in Developing the relationships with American buyers. Yeah, we would never want to talk like the amount of money in time you spent Building a buying network. You wouldn't want to screw it up by selling a bad product. I guess. Just like market economics, you see. So the only other thing that I would ask, then, is you saying that in France you often bike a twenty thirty thousand dollar horse without vet checks? Is that because you don't have a culture in France or in Europe as much of drugging horses? In America there's a lot of problem with drugging horses, and that's why you get the vet check, in case the horse was drugged when you tested it.
Speaker 1:Well, it also just your bones and make sure there's sound for upper-level jumping or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's just economic wise. I think the first reason is the average client doesn't have it's really tight budget. So if he tells you that he has 20 to spend, you really have 19.99 maximum to spend. So one dollar more or let's say a thousand dollar more for the vet check, it's a huge thing for the average clients in Europe. It's a huge stretch and so they would do maybe the minimum and again, drugging a horse on the amateur level it comes to Almost no one why? Because we learn from kid and that's another thing. We can go there, but we learn of the key to ride spicy and crazy pony all the time. So for us, horse moving and bucking around is totally normal. So we don't have that culture of having horses that not moving. You're lucky if you have one in your pony club that doesn't move and doesn't buck you off, but the rest of the rest of them you fell off every single week because ponies are nasty and that's how you learn.
Speaker 2:And that's how you learn, so that culture of having quiet horses for us it's not, it doesn't really exist Well it's hunter prolific in France or in Europe, like this year.
Speaker 1:So I think that's part of it because in America hunter jumper is so big and you want a flashy, big horse that's very, very quiet, right. Yes, it's almost like going against. Like you have this really fit, beautiful horse and they want to move there. By nature probably a little bit spicy, yeah, but you're drug them and now they're suitable for the hunter ring.
Speaker 2:So I think that exactly a common now we we don't and I think it's Con that we could improve in Europe. Because I do think that Anthorsen equitation Could bring a lot of positive in the education of Echestrian in Europe because it does bring, it, does build up Really good rider in for the future in the term of they have a natural sense of rhythm, that light going American seeds. That the good position. They have an incredible eyes. When Americans go all the years on the equitation and they start jumping on normal jumper, the eyes is amazing. The downside of is that they never learn to ride a horse that move ears. So then they are incapable of riding a horse that is not ready and that is not made and that moves. That's the downside.
Speaker 2:But I think the good side and I I it's not a little bit in Europe to to have this competition. But I would Love to go further and make it, like in France, mandatory, for in those galop that I was speaking earlier, in those exam I would absolutely love to see that you have also an equitation test or a hunter test, because then they would put structure on the position, on the eyes, on the stride. So a funny part is, for example, in equitation and hunter you learn from the beginning to count stride right. So doesn't matter the age you have, this is, so it becomes natural extremely quickly. The funny story is that I never, no one, teach me how to count stride until I was 18 years old. So means that, ah ha. So means that I was jumping Not knowing even what, if what the fuck it was like counting stride. What was it like when someone saw me.
Speaker 2:How did you make your distance? You get, so you don't. You got up. So the coach would say gala in the middle and gala up. So then I mean it's a good, and then and comes and pros and cons in that too. But so then we are fearless and we just go and then we ride fast and everything. But it's a disaster to watch how matters shows it's on our scary.
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Speaker 1:But would you, before you'd say, did align, would you at least walk the distance to know what's expected? It's not okay. This is a three.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's no you just slap the horse on the ass and get out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't count in, except if you come into a combination and they tell you a coach tell you this is one, this is two and the rest is just, this is number three, and then you turn a little bit. So it means bending, bending line, and then they don't count. It change a little bit I'm, because now it's become a little bit more professional, even on the pony side, but in my time, like 25, 20 years ago, no, you, you would not count, like Recreating to counting around a bend.
Speaker 1:I've never counted it around a bend. I mean, maybe that works, you know, but like for yeah, exactly, maybe you know the line.
Speaker 2:No, it's like one, two, three, four, five, going to middle here, going to middle there and Gallop. That's how we learn. And so, okay, going back to, I think so enters and equitation has pros and cons, and I think it's one of the things that I would love to see implemented more in Europe for that eyes that it brings to small, young riders it brings, and then credible eyes, and Then credible sense of rhythm. And first, distance on the balance, you can see an American. You can spot an American from very far away when they ride. It doesn't matter if they don't know how to ride, because most of them they don't know how to ride or build the horse to that level. The thing is that's what the most valuable things that equitation and hunter brings is that they bring them Accurate eyes and feelings for rhythm.
Speaker 3:Well, in the interest of time, because we've been speaking now for an hour, let's just move the last topic, which is I just want to touch quickly on your business now, and I also saw from your website that you bought in a question a parallel company at the start of COVID.
Speaker 1:Is that, and also adding into how you're in Mexico now? I mean that's a big, big. Thing.
Speaker 2:We think are we do? We have two more hours. So basically I rode for those rider that you name it earlier for the last 15 years and and at one point this is a really powerful job but tiring as well as you you don't have your personal life. Basically, I traveled around the world. I was on the age of stopping, having at least a little break, which I did. I knew I would come back to horses, but one thing I knew for sure is that I wanted to be to do it for me for once and not for someone else, and so it was really hard, because my last job at Eric was the best job you could find in the world. So that was really Hard decision to leave something that you have nothing to say against it. Everything was perfect in that job. It was a dream job for most, like everyone, and so but I felt like it was about time to do something for me.
Speaker 2:I went on the break and I back back in South America for a few months and Then I had friends in Mexico and they told me what you plan and everything, and I was like I want to build, I want to try to open my business, and they're like look, if you want, mexico is the coming up country. The market is like American, so it's like a Rich and amateur market. I would say so you really could have a lot of opportunities to open a brand new business there and and less struggle, I would say, regarding finance and compared to Europe. And my friend was like look, I have some horses in the ranch. No one was to ride them, their young horses. If you want a, I can already give this and then you start from there. So you arrive with something already, and that's how I came. And so now I'm in Mexico and Great friend.
Speaker 1:How long ago was that? Four years ago, okay. Were you expecting to be here for more than a year or two? Yes, okay, so this was always going to be the next thing get settled into this country. Really making a burst up in a business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to this country and on the other country. But yes, the plan is that wherever I would land and Trying to have a business, I would live there like for a while. I would see myself for a while. American, for some reason, was not so much in my mind. America, sorry, for some reason was not so much in my mind Because I've lived there for for the last seven years half time and I never really had a clique with it. Canada was another country that I was thinking of because, okay, I love Canada, I love the country, I love the people, but anyway. So I landed to Mexico and by open my riding business. I didn't know how to to Market it because I was not sure if I would go full-time coach or like riders or like. So it was harder than I expected on some levels. Which one? That I didn't see it coming is that, for the information, the last 15 years that I wrote for those riders, I was what it's called a flat rider, so I was riding on the flat, exercising, making them ready, whatever it called For a jumping rider, so I'd never really jump.
Speaker 2:I always jump here and there, once in a while have one young horse in Some stable, but it was not a jumping rider and it goes back to For my first job at Philippe. I arrived from being a teacher to that big stable so my parents never had the chance to offer me to jump and straight away I landed so young in a five-star stable as a Flat rider. Then I never get the chance to jump, so my experience in jumping always been almost none. But my skills in riding went up and up and up over the years and when I was with Eric I Never felt unvalued as my skill. Just because I was not jumping Didn't mean that my opinion didn't matter, didn't mean that what I was doing didn't matter. Even with all the riders at the show. I would have totally normal conversation with top riders about oh, I saw you this morning, you were flooding with that bet and then you, you did like a normal rider. Conversation doesn't matter if I was just the flat rider, I I didn't see it coming that in Mexico and make a huge difference for them in the culture, because the culture is how high do you jump? And I'm like, oh, I never jumped. I saw you don't know what you're talking about. And and also it's not because of it's not there for this that the culture is that they don't have flat rider. A flat rider doesn't exist here, so they don't even know what it is for them. It's just that they assume it's groomed, because I used to groom also. So it's like a groom that just trot around the horses. They don't see how it can be a real professional job in Europe.
Speaker 2:When I arrived and was like I come with my Weekends, basic was talking with the best rider in the world about this and this and this and this. So the value me as a, as someone valuable to give advice Sometimes and also I would ask all the riders what they think about my horses. And so I arrived full confidence on that doesn't matter, I never jumped, my voice would have weight on people. And then I remembered if one of the first months I arrived, a friend of mine Tried to introduce me to a lot of people and he said you should do a clinic. So I was like for people to know you. So I was like, okay, so I do a clinic. And then he tried to market me because I'm really hard to market myself, I have to say for that. So he does it.
Speaker 2:I Don't know staggers because I don't speak, I'm not like a face-to-face, yeah, and so, and I remember he asked a guy that for me is a Navratri amateur guy that jump 125, 130 maximum. And then, no, in my eyes on the European, not good, it's a good guy, but an amateur. And I remember all my. I think that phrase would stick in my mind. And he said, oh, nice. So, and he was like, oh, she wrote for this and this and this guy. And he's like, wow, amazing, how high did you jump on? I said no, I was not jumping, I was a flat rider and he's handsome was literally.
Speaker 2:He said, oh, I'm sorry, I don't have friends that are that amateur to ride with you. And I was like what? And I didn't know how to answer to that. So I actually did block like freeze completely, and because I didn't know if he was joking, if he was not joking, I had to answer to that properly, not like being rude. And yes, excuse me. And I was like, well, a few months ago I was building exercise before going to the World Championship for one of the best riders and you're telling me you cannot learn anything from me, okay, and so I think I, so that that was a kind of the months, the mindset that makes you can have. So that that's the hard part in the business.
Speaker 1:Have you overcome that since, because it sounds like that was a big thing when you first got settled here.
Speaker 2:But you know, four years, I think until, I think, until the day that I would have a horse to jump 140, because for them, 140 is the ground to be trusted.
Speaker 2:I think until the point that I have a horse to jump 140, I would be considerate for the most of part like this. But Mexicans culture is also a lot on progressing, on seeking for, so they have a lot of good side, except that part of the flat riders, on the mindset they also. They want to be the best and that mindset is good and bad, but it's really good for progressing because they will seek outside of the country for better, for looking for a solution, and because they just want to be the best. And that's what brings such a quick evolution and progress, I think, in this country is that they have a huge motivation to be part of the really top riders and so that's bring up the level and also all the industry behind is growing because of those riders who really wants to learn. They want to be better all the time. That's all they want, and so I think that's an amazing because it's a really small industry in Mexico and so you can help at all.
Speaker 1:Are there any incentives from the country to help support this initiative from the people that want to be at the top?
Speaker 2:I don't think it's going. No, I would not speak about something that I don't know, but from what I saw, there's not the country that help, as in case, the culture in general. They want in everything they do. They want to do it good and they want to do it better than the other.
Speaker 1:But considering that you have this background, with a very structured training in France, then with all of the Olympians that you rode with, I would have thought that they would have seen that background and been like, oh wow, you've got a lot to offer to help me advance, versus just trying to compare your riding to what they could get out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought that too. I think it's a matter of bringing that flat rider job in their mind. I think it's just because they don't know about it and it again that the job. Even in Europe, the wider public doesn't know about the job. In the professional circle, we know that every rider has a flat rider at home. This is a well known, this is a mandatory. Now they cannot do it without someone that's riding at home.
Speaker 2:It's a bit more known job where I think it's just a matter of it's not that they want to be against it In Mexico. I think it's just a matter of they never seen it, they never heard about it. They just don't know what is a job. I don't think that before they talk to me they realize that it was a job. So I don't think it's coming from bad intention. I just think it's coming from the fact that they didn't even realize that it's something that it's important in their system. I generalize, obviously, but it's not all of them. They are not like this and have really good Mexican riders who would come here and there and ask me what do you think about this and what did you do? Most of the question would be that I receive and steal now is that what did you do with Eric to get that horse there or this to change? They would ask me what did I do in the past? I would say that makes sense.
Speaker 1:And so, where in Mexico are you based now? Mexico City, and, would you say, because we still haven't been to Mexico City and as soon as we get down there, since we're now in Austin, so, as we had told you before, we're close by and we do want to go down. So we're going to come visit you as soon as we do.
Speaker 2:But would you say?
Speaker 1:that, that area is like a larger equestrian mecca, or are there other pockets of Mexico that seem to have more riders around it?
Speaker 2:No, you have different part of Mexico that have shows in the country, but I think the bigger part is in Mexico City.
Speaker 1:And is this just like right outside the city? So people will live in the city and commute out, or what does that live?
Speaker 2:Yes, and then some are in the middle of the city as well. Some clubs and stables are in the middle of the city. Oh, that's super interesting.
Speaker 3:Okay, great. Well, that's been awesome. It's been a really good chat. I've learned a lot. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:There's just so many things, that kind of like what we're talking about, with the anecdotes of that Europeans sending over their less than ideal horses. There's just so many anecdotes that you hear every now and then and because it's a pattern, you assume that that is just how it is. So it's really great getting feedback from the front line. You actually are experiencing this, so you know better than anyone.
Speaker 2:So now, a day, I have my business, as you said, in Mexico as a normal riding business, but recently, so last year, I had a huge accident that I break one of my vertebra and I had to stay seven months in a corset, and that strike me and upon my eyes to having something other than riding as an income for safety net. And so I fast forward. I went back to school, I study social media marketing for a question and it worked on Instagram, as I said a little bit, and then suddenly I started to see it as a second business, and so I want to say that you need to know your skills, and my skills are really low in selling horses. I'm so bad, I'm not a seller. I'm not a seller. I will produce you first, but to sell them I don't have that vibe of say I'm not a certain person. So you need to know your skill and because most of the business, a Christian business, are based on selling horses. So when I wanted to open my business, how am I going to do it? Literally few clients that pay you to ride, but normally the most part of your business is selling and I said how can I make it? I don't know how to sell. This is not my vibe and I think if you keep your mind open and implement others trickter in your business.
Speaker 2:Now I have so much more going on than just riding and I don't sell. I still don't sell horses. I mean I do sometimes, but that's the thing. So now I do social marketing for other stable or other brands. I'm on my way to launch my first guide and ebook and I'm going to print it. So that's going to be another income. Another opportunity came up a few years ago and now I design stables. I have an architect working with me and we do project. We don't do construction, but we do project. So far, I think seven projects and I think as more as you keep your mind open on opportunities and more it's possible.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you have the nature of saying, okay, riding business is like this and like this, and so it doesn't work, while I stop and I go back to be an employee and I think as an entrepreneur, you need to keep your mind open on other opportunities that can bring in to a Austrian industry as well.
Speaker 2:You can implement so many things from other industry to come in your industry and come up with different streamers income that is going to make you live as an entrepreneur a bit more safe, because we all know that entrepreneur is not so safe sometimes. It's a hard on on playing and then saying like I hope this product is going to work Now. So that I think if you really try to implement things from other industry into our industry, knowing that our, a Austrian industry, is really late on everything, I say we are really backward on. You know super good, but on tech we are really bad on tech. We're bad on marketing. We're bad on like we have a lot of rules to improve that. I think it's also our job to not stick to one business model.
Speaker 1:Right, the thing that they've always done, that everyone else is doing there's so many other ways that we incorporate into a question.
Speaker 3:So just food for thought. Just to finish it off, interesting point you made about the fact that you're a bad seller but you can produce a horse. We listened to a bunch of business and entrepreneurial podcasts and over the last 24 months, I'd say we've listened to a handful of stories about someone who was in the exact same position as you, but in a different industry, which was that they were trying to do the hard thing. The perfect example was a guy who was running gyms and he was opening gyms. He was better than anyone at opening a gym and basically getting all the memberships filled up straight away Like training the staff and training the staff and getting their email sequences set up and their social media sequences. That could make a gym really profitable really, really quickly.
Speaker 3:He was really, really good at it and he was opening more and more gyms because he was good at it. Someone told him you're in the wrong business. You shouldn't be opening gyms, you should be training gym owners how to open gyms. And so he completely changed his model and he went to $30 million in revenue in like 12 months.
Speaker 2:The guy was a big muscles.
Speaker 3:Maybe With a long hair.
Speaker 1:I mean you've got to have big muscles.
Speaker 3:I'm sure he does. But the point I was going to make is that, like so you might not be good at selling horses, but a lot of trainers and, of course, agents, they buy the horses. Then they have to produce the horse in order to sell it. So maybe an opportunity for you is, rather than trying to sell horses, maybe you can build a training course that trainers buy on how to most effectively produce a horse.
Speaker 1:Well, it sounds like that's part of what you're doing now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, With your ebook, etc.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm planning on, I'm thinking of doing an e-course as well. I don't know how which thematic, main thematic is gonna be in this, but yeah, this is it, it's a good idea. Or also, find a partner that sell for me, basically work with trainers from America, trainers from Europe, whatever, and know that my horse is a fossil and market it for me. But yeah, of course, could be, could be a good idea.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I mean because, yeah, it is. Fortunately, america has no certification, so they've got trainers coming out of there. That's a lot of potential customers for you to sell your training course on how to stand out as a trainer.
Speaker 1:Like I know there's other Bosnia, china, all these countries that are have developing equestrian scenes. They're really really trying to find quality instruction and training, because that doesn't exist where they are. So they're always looking externally or Hoping that people that have that expertise come to their country. So to be able to create something like this and then bridge that gap and then be accessible for people in other countries, I think is also a really big opportunity.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I don't know because I'm obviously not experienced in this space, but I would bet London to a brick that there is an opportunity here.
Speaker 3:To, like when you said produce a horse, it's a completely different way of thinking about it than a trainer and training a horse. A training and trainer or horse is someone who you take your horse to this person because this person knows how to train a horse correctly. But to say, produce a horse to get it ready for sale, that, in terms that there is a routine that you go through, there is a structure to this process and selling that that is, I think, huge opportunity. Because Jen perfectly said China China is trying to currently hire European and American trainers to fly into China, not to train the horses. They need to train the trainers, the local trainers to train the horses, and so someone like them, if they could buy a really high quality online course that told you how to produce a horse and it was a system and there was a structure to it and it was something that could be replicated by anyone anywhere, that would be really, really valuable and you can sell it all over the world.
Speaker 1:Well, of course, and also just the bill, I mean, depending on how involved you want to be, but even just some kind of Infrastructure where they can do some type of paid digital downloads. They can go through that, they can go through the course. But then maybe a higher tier would be the ability to be able to talk with you, whether that's once a week or during an open hours session when many people could come in with their questions and you can answer it. But you're like a town hall, if you will. So I think there's a lot of opportunity there, because you do have this unique Set of I mean, your background with riding, with these top level riders, but also with this structured upbringing that you had in France. That is quite rare and, I think, coveted a lot of parts of the world. So so, then, package that all up. I think people all over the world would buy that.
Speaker 2:I think that's a really really good idea, but I think you would be Needed to divide it in two.
Speaker 2:So trainer on one side and then producing a horse is totally different of a training for me. I see trainer the word trainer as someone that trained the rider and then the producer is the one that just do the horse right, like it's really to surprise thing, but it's still a good idea on both of it. On one of the other, I think, yeah, I think it's start like love apps, start doing training online and videos and everything from really really good riders, but maybe yet finding an idea of structuring, structured everything around the training part and around producing again, producing a horse, for example, producing a horse for the top sport, it's totally different than producing a horse for the 140 American Matter market. I would say you, you, you ride them completely different, you produce them differently, you look for different qualities as well, and then when you produce young horses, it's also different who you want to market to. So you will produce a different if you know that your market goal is Europe, or if you know that your market goal is in Mexico, for example.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and this is all the insights that you have, as, having worked on multiple continents and obviously bought and sold and produced horses On each side of the equation, you've been the European seller to Americans and you've been the American buyer of European horses, so you know both sides of the market, right.
Speaker 1:Well, since the business is stable. Eight where do the name come from?
Speaker 2:So eight always been my number since I was a kid. For some reason now it's on my book note and everything from a kid, I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think it's from you in the Chinese lucky eight.
Speaker 2:Lucky, no, lucky, infinity. I think it's because I was drawing it non-stop like this, without leaving the pen out that that was eight. And I had it on my wrist type two already for years. And and when I arrived, one of the my clients asked me to help him to build a stable. That's where the building site came into life. But then he already had that kind of a small layout and he said I want eight stable styles. And Then he's like can you help me to build it and design it and everything. And I was like yeah, for sure, that's not fun. And he said but I want exactly eight.
Speaker 2:And at that time I was looking for a name for my business because I just arrived and for some leave humans here and there and I wanted to open an Instagram on it and I said, and I'm building. And I said, well, stable eight. It is. I'm building a, I'm building a stable of eight stars. I have it on my wrist, I have it. So I run it to some of my Canadian friends and they were like how do you like the name? They're like that's so cool, that's easy to remember, that easy to say, and I think we never heard something like this. Like it's a little bit different. I was like okay, perfect.
Speaker 1:Perfect.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you very much for joining us. That's been amazing. It's been a great podcast now.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:I wish we would have more time, but I think I think we'll most definitely have you on again in the future, just because I mean the way you think about the markets and the way you just very you're very Concise considered perspective on things and it's really good well and you're just.
Speaker 1:You have so much perspective from all sides of the coin when it comes to whether you're the rider or the trainer, or the producer, and being all over the world because I wear those different casket. Yes, Absolutely, and, like I said, so we want to go to Mexico, will probably be there in December actually, so I want to see you stable late in person.
Speaker 2:Please come. And also, I obviously needed to Generalize a little bit when we talked about the difference between North America and absolutely. I hope people Understood me that it was a generation because I can hear some number. I'm not like this. I do different.
Speaker 2:Yeah but it's just like to have a comparison between those two. I had to generalize a little bit and you'll find exception in everywhere, of course, but thank you for giving me the opportunity. That was a really, really great pleasure to talk to you and it's nice because I think of your non-ecstrium background. It brings up to a lot of interesting question that you're not used to have, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you you have a different perspective on, on, on the market and on, and you you compare to other Industry, which is really good, because I think it's what we need to do. We need to open up on looking on what the other industry are doing to Make it more sustainable for us in the future, for making more accessible also for larger Public. I think we need to look outside of our industry and I think that's why you bring up it and it's really nice, because it gives Other insights and maybe other opportunities to have a better future in the industry, when nowadays we're not sure about what tomorrow is gonna look like that's.
Speaker 1:I even have a good balance of that because, like, I was bored into it. So I think a lot of things that I see it's like well, yeah, it's how it's always been done. But because I have experience in the corporate world, I can then look at it a little bit more Objectively than someone who never had that experience. But then there's Sam, who's like being down from another planet. So it's a question to you, right, how, if you aren't born into the sport, how do you get into this board? So, and how do you maintain being able to ride and compete in the sport if you then have to go off and support yourself and all these Things? So, yeah here, it's good having an alien like you being outside.
Speaker 3:It has its benefits, Good side right well, thank you very much and. Well, no doubt we'll have you back on the podcast soon, no doubt, and we might see you at Christmas time.
Speaker 2:Hopefully I can see you. Thank you.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for listening to the latest episode of the Pegasus podcast. As you heard from our mid-roll, we are also releasing an equestrian event management software platform. Now it's easier than ever to post, sign up and sponsor for any equestrian event in the world, thanks to all the features of the Pegasus app. To sign up, go to our homepage at wwwthepegasusapp. That is wwwthepegasusapp. See you next time.